tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post7300519972830625921..comments2023-12-24T13:03:35.696+00:00Comments on Miserable Old Fart: Welsh Nationalist or Brit SocialistAlwyn ap Huwhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-65334616966835278742007-06-07T11:47:00.000+01:002007-06-07T11:47:00.000+01:00I don't the the Senedd should be opened by anyone ...I don't the the Senedd should be opened by anyone other than the Head of State. Anyone below that rank would lessen the status of the Assembly.<BR/><BR/>I agree Alwyn, the matter the British Head of State should not concern Welsh nationalists. I remember saying someting on similar lines when Plaid debated whether to send people to the House of Lords.Padshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16372778051663029718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-63658108371311925412007-06-06T12:04:00.000+01:002007-06-06T12:04:00.000+01:00Bethan and Leanne would have done their cause more...Bethan and Leanne would have done their cause more good and would have be seen as being less in awe of the Brit Left (as well as being cringingly opportunitstic and sancitmonious by visiting the homeless) if they'd have gone to Cilmeri.<BR/><BR/>By going to Cilmeri they'd have given prmoinence to Welsh identity. As Miserable said, we should oppose the Senedd being open by the Speaker of the HouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-79897080213790328232007-06-06T09:03:00.000+01:002007-06-06T09:03:00.000+01:00Whilst I usually disagree with Bethan and leanne o...Whilst I usually disagree with Bethan and leanne on just about everything I have to say the plaid would be a lot duller without them.<BR/><BR/>I do share some of Alwyn's views that many on the left in the party seem terribly anxious to receive the approval of the British left, and that they have a disproportionate influence on the party. Still if Alwyn, myself and others cannot be bothered to cymrumarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03669732438904553308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-62387582357234966642007-06-05T03:38:00.000+01:002007-06-05T03:38:00.000+01:00No Bethan, it's not easy for me to portray members...No Bethan, it's not easy for me to portray members of Plaid as <I>Loony Left</I>, its not easy for me to complain about the way a party that I was a member of before you were born has been usurped by people who haven't the slightest interest in promoting independence for Wales, but just see Plaid as a way of continuing the socialist domination of Wales through other means.<BR/><BR/>It's not easy Alwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-35070737801751976972007-06-04T22:17:00.000+01:002007-06-04T22:17:00.000+01:00If Leanne and Bethan objected to Elizabeth opening...If Leanne and Bethan objected to Elizabeth opening Wales' parliament because she was not Welsh then they would have my wholehearted support, but their own words show this is not the case, they object to her because she is a queen. <BR/><BR/>Of course it is a Welsh Nationalist argument. I can't fathom why you don't believe it wouldn't be.Its too easy for you to portray us as loony left. I exceptedbethanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863774794319689089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-66539086902051715232007-06-04T21:01:00.000+01:002007-06-04T21:01:00.000+01:00Bethan - the monarchy is relevant to your life bec...Bethan - the monarchy is relevant to your life because you live in a constitutional monarchy - like Sweden, like the Netherlands, like Spain. I think it would be quite right to boycott Charles and Camillas dinner at Cardiff Castle, since they have no constitutional position, but the head of state opening the Assembly is another matter.<BR/><BR/>Leanne - I am sure that the majority of your Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-51998240115389886052007-06-04T20:11:00.000+01:002007-06-04T20:11:00.000+01:00I think you are being very unfair towards Bethan a...I think you are being very unfair towards Bethan and Leanne here. It is obvious from their press release and comments that they oppose the involvement of the Queen for 2 reasons.<BR/><BR/>1, because the monarchy is undemocratic.<BR/>2, because the monarchy is irrelevant to the people of Wales. i.e. that they are an English/Germanic institution.<BR/><BR/>Bethan Jenkins:<BR/>"As a Welsh person, I Bonheddwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13235476497044021789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-43968588695660394462007-06-04T19:21:00.000+01:002007-06-04T19:21:00.000+01:00I am not being mischievous at all Ted, I am merely...I am not being mischievous at all Ted, I am merely trying to highlight the important point that many on Plaids left choose to follow a British Socialist agenda at the expense of the national cause.<BR/><BR/>If you look at either <A HREF="http://bethanjenkins.blogspot.com/2007/06/royal-visit-to-wales-press-release.html" REL="nofollow">Bethan</A> or <A HREF="http://leannewood.typepad.com/Alwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-83596618744830318712007-06-04T14:57:00.000+01:002007-06-04T14:57:00.000+01:00Your being slightly mischievous here Old Fart. T...Your being slightly mischievous here Old Fart. The symbolism of AMs elected to serve the people of Wales effectively paying homage to the Queen of England is clear for all. If it’s not a nationalistic statement to publicly refute such kowtowing then I don’t know what is.Ted Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08019084208640446761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-6249113559197539452007-06-04T11:18:00.000+01:002007-06-04T11:18:00.000+01:00This is the reality of Labour 2007 .Theres a e-pet...This is the reality of Labour 2007 .<BR/>Theres a e-petition to keep the 10p tax band,this is something that is going to effect a lot of people on low income.if you have a moment please could you sign it.<BR/>bernard.<BR/>http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Savethe10pcband/<BR/><BR/>Please pass this around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-87195155158772475152007-06-04T02:41:00.000+01:002007-06-04T02:41:00.000+01:00oh dear I'm a long time Plaid voter who supports t...oh dear I'm a long time Plaid voter who supports the war in Iraq, supported the poll tax and although at the time I did support the miners - now think that strike was a great mistake. I also believe that Plaid's anti-war stance is certainly long but hardly honourable......funny old world isn't it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-72145677529953700872007-06-03T22:47:00.000+01:002007-06-03T22:47:00.000+01:00The only campaign I can think of that could fit th...The only campaign I can think of that could fit that category would be the anti-war campaign. Plaid has a long and honourable history as an anti-war party and the Plaid left (and the party generally) has built on that with its involvement in the campaign against war in Iraq.<BR/> So what if the scummy SWP is involved? The SWP was involved in the anti-poll tax movement and the miners' support hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-77329531130099900722007-06-03T21:01:00.000+01:002007-06-03T21:01:00.000+01:00What gets me about the Plaid left is the support t...What gets me about the Plaid left is the support they give to English based campaigns, very often campaigns which are fronts for the vile Socialist Workers Party.<BR/><BR/>No doubt this obsession with the causes of the English left has made Plaid "respectable" with the Guardian, Independent, BBC etc. I remember when Welsh nationalists didn't bother themselves very much with English dominated Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-19742592902294975212007-06-03T20:32:00.000+01:002007-06-03T20:32:00.000+01:00Republicanism and Welsh Nationalism don't mix.I'm ...<I>Republicanism and Welsh Nationalism don't mix.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm surprised you think constitutional matters are irrelevant to Welsh nationalism. The monarchy sits atop the whole rotten pile and is therefore symbolic of all that we oppose, surely?<BR/><BR/>Why this makes them British republicans baffles me - they're Welsh republicans. Remember those?hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-16622803682659972522007-06-03T20:09:00.000+01:002007-06-03T20:09:00.000+01:00It'a pity more AMs don't adopt Leanne Wood's and B...It'a pity more AMs don't adopt Leanne Wood's and Bethan Jenkins' position. I suppose the others are too busy buying new hats and suits to think about how ridiculous we look, with this feudal throwback opening our SeneddAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-5423569792471943782007-06-03T18:33:00.000+01:002007-06-03T18:33:00.000+01:00"Do we have a constitution?"I believe we do, altho..."Do we have a constitution?"<BR/><BR/>I believe we do, although it is not contained within a single document.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-12931877643529139012007-06-03T18:07:00.000+01:002007-06-03T18:07:00.000+01:00Anonymous said//The Queen is part of the constitut...Anonymous said<BR/><BR/>//The Queen is part of the constitution -//<BR/><BR/>Do we have a constitution?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-18628975841273598162007-06-03T17:56:00.000+01:002007-06-03T17:56:00.000+01:00The Queen is playing a role in Welsh Political Lif...The Queen is playing a role in Welsh Political Life, therefore I think that Bethan and Leanne are right to not attend her opening the Assembly, as the principled people they clearly are. Good to see politicans willing to stand up for what they believe in. Good for them I say. <BR/><BR/>The royals should not play a role in Welsh life (Or British life, but that is another matter, since I am not Gerainthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10068798203880629702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-24356672294416271052007-06-03T17:34:00.000+01:002007-06-03T17:34:00.000+01:00In Plaid's early days it proposed a policy of abst...In Plaid's early days it proposed a policy of abstentionism along the lines adopted by Sinn Fein.<BR/><BR/>Since that time it has accepted the curremnt constitutional settlement, which is why these two AMS should be condemned for insulting - not the Queen - but the head of state.<BR/><BR/>A principled position would be to readopt a policy of abstentionism, this is just infantile leftism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-90319263041678574982007-06-03T17:18:00.000+01:002007-06-03T17:18:00.000+01:00So when did I say that I am a "royalist" Hafod? Wh...So when did I say that I am a "royalist" Hafod? What I said is that the royalist / republican debate is irrelevant to Welsh nationalism.<BR/><BR/>What the republicans in Plaid are opposed to is the fact that the Queen rules over us because of her birth, because she is not head of the Union by election. This is not a nationalist issue it is an unionist one. It is an issue that considers the best Alwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-34013691534006807752007-06-03T17:11:00.000+01:002007-06-03T17:11:00.000+01:00Without structure and respect for traditions in ou...Without structure and respect for traditions in our society we will be heading for lawlessness and anarchy. Some say we are heading fast that way now. Read the newspapers. <BR/><BR/>Take the politics out of it, this is the twenty first century and for the sake of our future civilisation we must keep the structures that define our common cultures withi the British Isles. And that includes the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-72759654964849370022007-06-03T15:58:00.000+01:002007-06-03T15:58:00.000+01:00Who believes in forelock tugging?The Queen is part...Who believes in forelock tugging?<BR/><BR/>The Queen is part of the constitution - nothing more - and by insulting her they are insulting the constitution. This is the same constitution that from my point of view will hopefully lead to the establishment of an independent Welsh Republic. In the meantime I respect the institutions that go to make up that constitution.<BR/><BR/>Of course there is aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-50051012038587410662007-06-03T15:42:00.000+01:002007-06-03T15:42:00.000+01:00their consituents want them to respect the formali...<I>their consituents want them to respect the formalities of the government they are members of.</I><BR/><BR/>Many thanks for speaking on my behalf and that of all the other constituents of these 2 members.<BR/><BR/>Clearly you've polled everyone in South Wales West and South Wales Central thoroughly to come up with such a sweeping statement.<BR/><BR/>Well one of the reasons I voted for Plaid wasDeletedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398275819570930751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-16140470879465541282007-06-03T15:36:00.000+01:002007-06-03T15:36:00.000+01:00I'm Plaid and I wonder whether MOF and the anonymo...I'm Plaid and I wonder whether MOF and the anonymous posters here are on the same planet. Can you be a Welsh nationalist and a royalist at the same time? No, unless you propose to revive the Welsh royal line (not that I do)<BR/> Can you be a socialist and a royalist? No.<BR/> <BR/> In what way are Leanne and Bethan Brits? It's just a lazy attempt to smear - either you're Welsh nash or Brit left. hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-89098929657852884872007-06-03T11:18:00.000+01:002007-06-03T11:18:00.000+01:00I'm plaid, and I think this is plain downright rud...I'm plaid, and I think this is plain downright rude of these two AMs. They know where they should be, they know they get paid to represent their constituents and their consituents want them to respect the formalities of the government they are members of.<BR/>I'm afraid we might be seeing future queen bees who cannot handle the fame of welsh politics and see it as a platform to get publicity Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com