tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post256985384768396666..comments2023-12-24T13:03:35.696+00:00Comments on Miserable Old Fart: Statistics, damned statistics and independenceAlwyn ap Huwhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-26874597083316701822012-03-16T04:19:00.850+00:002012-03-16T04:19:00.850+00:00Informer
Plaid Cymru gained 19.3% of the votes ca...Informer<br /><br />Plaid Cymru gained 19.3% of the votes cast in the last Assembly Elections, given the poor turnout that was about 8% of the total electorate. <br /><br />If we want to persuade the majority of the people of Wales to support independence fighting over that 8% is not, <b>cannot</b>, be the way forward!<br /><br />I am all in favour of a new political movement that wants to appealAlwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-24663094919901307532012-03-03T18:35:52.706+00:002012-03-03T18:35:52.706+00:00I do know unless Plaid can engage with the overwhe...I do know unless Plaid can engage with the overwhelming anglo-labour South Walians it hasn't a hope in hell of survival. The M4 connects to Cardiff/England, it doesn't connect to Mid or North Wales. It does seem Plaid have not managed to promote wales and its culture without excluding the English speakers that live here. It's suicide for any party trying to promote independence. mervynjames224https://www.blogger.com/profile/06689615164654187617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-74409149514189819102012-03-02T12:25:22.786+00:002012-03-02T12:25:22.786+00:00Alwyn, would your opinion change if (for example) ...Alwyn, would your opinion change if (for example) DET became leader of Plaid for the next 5–6 years? <br /><br />My view is ‘if something isn’t working then it needs to be fixed or replaced’. However, on this issue I can see we must agree to disagree; a different philosophy in politics can only be a healthy thing.Mamwladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266647231847776222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-85221677769331801622012-03-02T04:26:12.382+00:002012-03-02T04:26:12.382+00:00The problem that I have with your argument, Inform...The problem that I have with your argument, Informer, is your claim for the need for another party to challenge <b>Plaid</b>. A second national party challenging Plaid just weakens the cause. Plaid isn't as nationalist as you or I might want it to be, but it doesn't have a big enough vote to challenge either! <br /><br />What would be the point of a national party that challenges Plaid Alwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-69784846500232168242012-03-01T20:23:14.725+00:002012-03-01T20:23:14.725+00:00Alwyn; I agree that nationalist against nationalis...Alwyn; I agree that nationalist against nationalist will not benefit the Independence cause in the short term but if Plaid Cymru are not ‘up to the job’ then why shouldn’t they be challenged? <br /><br />Taking the nationalist vote for granted is the reason they’ve been allowed to become lethargic, maybe a nationalist movement (initially) to push them in the right direction will be the answer.Mamwladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266647231847776222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-81860664394366512832012-03-01T12:10:57.588+00:002012-03-01T12:10:57.588+00:00Although the full figures from the survey weren...Although the full figures from the survey weren't published at the time, they are <a href="http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/5y1m6bm8n2/YG-Archives-Pol-ITVWales-Results-080212.pdf" rel="nofollow">available now</a>, Alwyn.<br /><br />From them, we can see that although 10% said they wanted independence, only 11% said they would vote Plaid in a Westminster election. That alone MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-88898965017067076682012-03-01T06:36:29.605+00:002012-03-01T06:36:29.605+00:00The InformerFeb 29, 2012 07:55 AM
Said
There is no...<b>The InformerFeb 29, 2012 07:55 AM<br />Said<br />There is no reason why we can't have another nationalist party.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />There is no reason why we can't have a dozen or more nationalist parties, but without a PR system where we can elect a nationalist of choice, there is little purpose in having more than one. <br /><br />I can stand in the next Westminster election Alwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-430000647955933242012-02-29T15:55:55.941+00:002012-02-29T15:55:55.941+00:00Anon: "I wish we had a PR system that would a...Anon: "I wish we had a PR system that would allow a wider range of nationalist parties".<br /><br />There is no reason why we can't have another nationalist party.Mamwladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266647231847776222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-59804441886460614392012-02-29T13:52:34.296+00:002012-02-29T13:52:34.296+00:00There are several shades of grey when it comes to ...There are several shades of grey when it comes to Welsh nationalism. Everyone knows that Plaid is reliant on the cultural nationalist vote. As a child/young adult in Mid Glamorgan, an awful lot of Labour supporters I knew were borderline nationalists and fervent 80 minute patriots. Welshness is a powerful political weapon and Labour are the masters of playing it to their advantage without Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-6951352453707161682012-02-29T10:27:02.417+00:002012-02-29T10:27:02.417+00:00There are many Welsh nationalists who will not vot...There are many Welsh nationalists who will not vote for Plaid because of their links to the 'House of Lords' and their ever changing thoughts on independence.<br /><br />Plaid needs to be challenged by a new nationalist party or movement, at the moment Plaid Cymru has become an obstacle in the path towards independence.Mamwladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266647231847776222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-82409274150842653592012-02-29T09:32:59.987+00:002012-02-29T09:32:59.987+00:00If you were a media outlet with a pro-unionist bia...If you were a media outlet with a pro-unionist bias then you would focus on the 10% who voted for independence.<br /><br />If they had any credibility they would focus on the 32% who want more powers AND the 10% who want full autonomy. That gives you 42% of the vote.<br /><br />Which is more than the 30% who want to remain the same and the 20% who want less or no powers.<br /><br />Incidentally Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11475962539522399975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-88076738107175043882012-02-29T09:08:43.154+00:002012-02-29T09:08:43.154+00:00Speaking as another non-aligned nationalist I can ...Speaking as another non-aligned nationalist I can only agree. If Leanne Wood wins the leadership of Plaid she will boost support in the Valleys, but risks losing it yn y fro. Similarly a win by Elin will just wrap up Plaid's core support while putting off new voters. Providing we can get STV voting, then we would be better off with two nationalist parties - both clearly pro-Wales but with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8120478390983403863.post-88668483709469989252012-02-29T08:54:54.903+00:002012-02-29T08:54:54.903+00:00:-) good analysis - yes the stats mean that there ...:-) good analysis - yes the stats mean that there are more non Plaid voters than Plaid voters that support independence... surely one of the aims must be to switch those people to voting for Plaid?Cibwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621705905770341542noreply@blogger.com