Every night, between midnight and 2am the blog A Pint of Unionist Light produces a post called Elsewhere.
I'm not sure whether this post is auto generated or is a lazy cull of loyal posts that have not been well read, because some of the captures are a bit odd; like a post that claims that states are immortal, so a successful referendum for independence should be rebutted, because the state is more important than popular democracy! I kid you not. Or a post that has obviously gone through the machinations of a translation machine, and doesn't make much sense because of the machines limitations.
However PUL gets his Elsewhere's he does point to some interesting posts, such as this one from Dilettante, who asks whether the Conservatives should go back to their old label of Conservative and Unionists Party.
If I remember rightly, the reason why Unionist was dropped by the Conservative party, was because in the post war years up to the beginning of the troubles in the north of Ireland the term unionism changed its meaning. Rather than being a supporter of the Union of the crowns of England, Scotland and Ireland, an unionist became a supporter of a trades union; Conservative and (Trades) Unionist didn't make sense!
Of course since the beginning of the troubles in the north of Ireland the term unionist almost regained its original meaning, except that it was tainted, it was related to one of the extremes of northern Irish politics which was alien to most people on the mainland and part of the pain and confusion that the Province's politics caused.
With all respect to the likes of O'Neill, to most people on this side of the Irish Sea, the politics of the troubles was a case of Catholic nutters fighting Protestant nutters, neither side was ike us. The likes of the Rev Dr Paisley and his Unionist supporters were Irish trouble makers and very un-British.
The idea of loyalist terrorists was an oxymoron! How can you show loyalty to the crown and a unity with the rest of the UK through acts of deadly violence? There is a kind of insanity in the very concept, which made Northern Irish Unionism foreign to the majority of the British people, rather than making us feel united with them through the Union.
Northern Irish Sectarian Unionism separates Ulster from the rest of UK politics, as much as Republicanism does! The ideal way to counter that would be for voters in Ulster to have the same choice as the people of Scotland and Wales have in elections: Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem and Nationalist candidates. Given that choice the nationalists would probably win every seat under first past the post.
The truth of the matter is that the Union gave up on the North of Ireland many years ago, the only true choice for Ulster is union with the rest of Ireland or an independent Republic of Northern Ireland, Britain moved on without you and you are not British any more, accept it!
"The truth of the matter is that the Union gave up on the North of Ireland many years ago, the only true choice for Ulster is union with the rest of Ireland or an independent Republic of Northern Ireland, Britain moved on without you and you are not British any more, accept it!"
ReplyDeleteLegally, my passport says different, international law (The Belfast Agreement) says different and most important of all my heart says different. If a "United Ireland" were to happen tomorrow it wouldn't change that last point one little iota.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but by instructing me as to what my national identity is and isn't aren't you committing the same "crime" as the element of British nationalism that would attempt to deny you your Welshness?
Also, I would like to point out that unionism is not coterminous with loyalism - friends of mine from NI tell me that in certain 'loyalist' areas you're just as unwelcome as a mainland Brit as a Catholic.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what on earth makes you think the Nationalists would win every seat if mainland politics entered the province? Wishful thinking.
Thanks for the link though.
O'Neill, the point wasn't a legalistic one.
ReplyDeleteLegally you are a British subject. No one could argue with that.
The point is that most people on the Mainland would assume that you are as Irish as Gerry Adams, they may well be ignorant sh**s for thinking that, but that is what they would think never the less.
During the troubles neither side was seen as "Quintessentially British", both were seen as odd and foreign, and difficult and different and un British.
The peace process and the Chuckle Brothers may have made the northern Irish less fearsome in British eyes, but I don't think that they have made you seem less Irish and more British.
To most people on the mainland the division of the north and south Ireland is as stupid as the division of north and south of Korea.
There may be good reasons for the split from your point of view, but few on this side of the sea understand or appreciate it!
Dilettante said...
ReplyDeleteAlso, I would like to point out that unionism is not coterminous with loyalism - friends of mine from NI tell me that in certain 'loyalist' areas you're just as unwelcome as a mainland Brit as a Catholic.
And the vast majority on the mainland can appreciate that nuance? I suspect not!
Also, what on earth makes you think the Nationalists would win every seat if mainland politics entered the province? Wishful thinking.
It isn't wishful thinking. If you could imagine that NI voted like Scotland or Wales and distributed the vote according to likely "British" preference then the likely result would be:
1 Nationalist
2 Labour
3 Conservative
4 Lib Dem
Which makes me wonder why those who want to "normalise" NI politics in to the British mainstream seem to be choosing the Conservative & Unionist rout.
Wouldn't it make more sense to try and unite the SDLP with working class Unionists and the British Labour Party?
"Legally you are a British subject. No one could argue with that."
ReplyDeleteNo, the point I was making was the fact the "legality" of my Britishness is of much less important than the fact that my heart tells me I am British. My passport can be taken away, that national identity never will be.
"The point is that most people on the Mainland would assume that you are as Irish as Gerry Adams, they may well be ignorant sh**s for thinking that, but that is what they would think never the less."
Well, I actually think I am as Irish as Gerry, it's just I have an added bonus of a British identity!
When you travel abroad and tell people you're Welsh, does it bother you that some people think that is merely a subsection of Britishness or even (the horror!) Englishness? Maybe, but in the end it's inconsequential really isn't it? You know deep down what your Welshness means to you personally.
People on the mainland (if they care at all, which in my experience the vast majority don't) don't think I'm British, in the end I won't lose that much sleep. What those people don't have is the right to take away my legal status as a British citizen, only the people of Northern Ireland have that through the workings of the Belfast Agreement. What nobody has is the right to take away my British national identity.
PS, your more constructive criticism of the "Elsewhere" feature I've taken on board. It's something I started after the demise of the English Press which did something similar, still in the process of finetuning it.
Your talk rubbish MOF, Ulster is as British as England is, look at the flag
ReplyDelete