Promoting the National Cause

Jac o' the North has a post in which he, quite rightly notes, that Plaid Cymru has lost its way. I agree wholeheartedly with all he has to say.

The dalliance with socialism whilst ignoring the national question; the fear of upsetting English incomers who are drowning out the Party's heartlands, and putting places like Anglesey and Ceredigion demographically impossible to regain at a Westminster level, because the incomers out vote the natives are things that Plaid should deal with and should shout loud against.

When the tourist industry denies the historic fact that North West Wales is as post industrial as the South Wales Valleys, and uses this lie to stop any replacement industry to benefit local people, Plaid should be up in arms; but it tends to be compliant. The party opposes proper industry and supports Mickey Mouse tourist jobs as the only, desperate, hope for our communities.

A number of English politicians in the Labour Party, the Conservative Party, and the Liberal Democrats Party have said that immigrants should learn English; immigrants should learn British values and culture; immigrants should be forced to adapt and accept the culture of the country into which they are imigrating. But those same politicians' call me racist because I expect those who move into Wales to respect the Welsh Language and Culture - and so does Plaid!

The most sickening of the English immigrants into Wales are the White Flight ones. People who have moved into Wales because they see their communities overrun by immigrants, but object to any indigenous Welsh culture 'cos that's the sort of foreign shite they fled to avoid!

Wales needs a National Organisation to oppose the colonisation of Wales and to promote Welsh Nationalism, it needs an Organisation that promotes Independence rather than devo sops!

Jac suggests a New Nationalist Party, I'm not sure!

A new party might get a few thousand votes in the next Assembly Election, a seat by 2025, but having got that seat might start to compromise its nationalist identity in 2030 in order to get a second seat, and our grand children end up with the problem that we have!

What we need is a non party /cross party Campaign For Independence to protect our national identity and to promote independence, outwith the party political cycle. Something like Cymdeithas yr Iaith was in the 60's and 70's!


  1. Alwyn, you're probably right, a new party may not be the best option. But an organisation that deals with the issues Plaid and others would rather ignore is badly needed. Especially now that the Assembly has the legislative authority to actually do things.

    I'm giving the matter some thought and will post something in the next few days. An invitation-only meeting may be the best way to get things started.

  2. The whole English immigration issue is fundamentally a social and economic problem. England is a wealthier country than Wales and people from England can sell thir homes and buy a cheaper house here because Wales is a poorer country. That's got nothing to do with race - it's got everything to do with economics - even class.

    Labour cry "racism" because they do not want the debate in Wales framed in this way. Labour don't talk about issues like class anymore because they want to have their cake and eat it - they want to retain their core working class constituency while at the same time appealing to the more powerful sections of society - the middle classes and big business.

    Immigration is a class issue. Why? Because the man towards the bottom of the ladder is always worrying about who is that rung just below him, trying to get his place.

    As for Plaid, Plaid don't address this issue because Plaid are run by a middle-class elite who are fundamentally culturalists - they are not really interested in social issues and they are obsessed with respectability.

  3. With STV I would like to see two nationalist parties stading against Plaid - a more 'cultural' party maybe growing out of Llais Gwynedd - and a Republican party - with Plaid standing as more of a moderate umbrella party. If the two smaller parties can not get elected, then at least I would expect their votes to transfer to Plaid. If they do get elected then it would prove where people want Plaid to go. Win-Win


  4. If STV was used for Assembly elections (and I believe that it should be) I would agree with you Penddu; but in the interim what do those of us who are disappointed with the way in which Plaid has dealt with the national question do? We could form a new party and hope that by the time STV arrives that it might have a foothold. The problem with that strategy is that despite our love hate relationship with Plaid, splitting the nationalist vote doesn't help the cause of nationalism.

    I am not a big fan of Helen Mary, Siân Caiach is much more "my sort" of nationalist, but Siân's intervention in Llanelli has left the constituency without either a week nationalist or a fundamental nationalist representing it. Doing a Caiach thorough Wales by creating a new party doesn't make sense to me, despite understanding the temptation.

    Until and unless we have STV, the best way forward for those of us who believe in Independence (or even devo max) is to form a think tank / pressure group / protest movement to advance the cause of self determination outside the electoral process in order insure that the caseis still made even when it might be electorally uncomfortable for Plaid to make the case.

  5. People like firm leadership and direction, as in Scotland, not indecision or facing both ways. Plaid should reaffirm its principles and what it stands for and proclaim its aim of independence, forcibly arguing the case and the benefits to be derived from its achievement.

  6. If Sian Caiach had stood on the list under Dyfed First rather than a Llanelli First label she might have got elected. Llais Gwynedd would have been far more likely to get elected on the list.

    It's standing in the constituencies that's a bit of a dead end. I'd bet that a Nationalist party would get 3 or 4 seats via the list. They'd certainly do better than the pathetic votes gained by the Greens and the Ultra-Left who seem to be the constituency that Plaid are most comfortable with.

  7. To be honest I sat at a Plaid meeting for an hour arguing whether the meeting should be held in Welsh or English a show of hands decided it would be debated again, it was my one and only trip to a Plaid meeting. I may vote for them now, but the meeting are dreadful

  8. The call for a new nationalist party is interesting but incredibly flawed- have a look at the Independent Wales Party and how they fared.

    Much more realistic is the idea of a permanent pro-independence campaign.