Not In or Out, but a New Europe

The European debate in the UK is rather odd. It is portrayed as one of two stark choices IN or OUT. If an in/out referendum were to be held tomorrow I would suspect, based on what my friends and family say, that most of the voters of Wales would vote OUT (not a scientific survey, but this is a blog not an academic essay).

The oddity is that most people who tell me that they would vote OUT are not anti-European; they are opposed to a European Superstate. They agree with the idea of a Common Market, they agree with the idea of a "level playing field" where employment rights or animal welfare standards etc are equal thoroughout Europe they like the idea of free trade and free travel in Europe; what they don't want is an United States of Europe.

Such attitudes are not "little Englander" attitudes, they are not UKIP attitudes; they are actually Pan European attitudes. Large numbers of the citizens of every part of Europe want to rein back the idea of a European Superstate and re-embrace the idea of a Common Market. Supporting either the Europhobes or the Europhiles in an UK stark choice referendum will be bad for Wales. What we should do is unite with those, thoroughout Europe, who want a new European settlement where independent nations are In Europe, but not under Europe's thumb!


  1. I think we are approaching every country for itself or else scenarios. It is a fact European legislations have favoured Europe and shackled the UK. This may be because we never adopted the total immersion approach other countries did. That suggests many UK people are still not happy being immersed into Europe still.

    We actually live in a GLOBAL market,not just an European one. British business is split down the middle large corporations want to stay in,middle and smaller ones say Europe is killing them with negative legislation. We should be seeking new markets anyway and the very obvious ones are not Europe, but Asia. If Europe says we won't buy from you unless you do as you are told by us, the, we are out, no question.

    The UKIP rides as we know ON Europe's 'freedom of movement' fiasco, which has meant they all moved HERE to take advantage of lax UK laws and European overrides of our laws, it has a LOT of support. We won't accept federalism,not while it is obvious Germany is running the whole show anyway.

  2. One thing we forget is Europe's history. These countries almost all have a history of recent dictatorship, foreign invasion and bloody ethnic tensions. You just won't build this non-centralised Europe because the European elites don't trust their people not to drag them back to the bad old days. They want a highly centralised, elite dominated, corporatist state.

    All this talk of renegotiation is hooey. The Euro-Zone states have to urgently negotiate a new, deeper treaty. The UK and others will obviously not go along with joining that core superstate and will inevitably have to enter into a new relationship, which Cameron or whoever can put to a referendum.

    I would prefer to see Wales as an independent country as part of a highly de-centralised Europe. Unfortunately it isn't on tanyone's agenda.

  3. Two world wars and Bosnia etc not exactly in Europe's favour either ! With Turkey lurking expect half of Asia to turn up here. Prior to the European thing we had trade al over the world. Now the yanks are telling us what to do, and to stay in Europe as well. They are no doubt still hoping we can shoot down a few missiles aimed at them. I doubt the UK can run a firework display at present.

  4. Good heavans! I'm really amazed, after all this time it had to happen, even a stopped clocks right twice a day, and for the very first time, after following your blog for a considerable period, I actually agree with you.

    Spot on.