The Lords of Independence

It is interesting that the House of Lords held what it called a "debate" on Scottish Independence.

A "debate" by definition needs people of different views discussing opposing opinions, as there are no SNP Lords, a proper debate in their Lordships chamber was nigh on impossible. I was disappointed, but not surprised, that the two Lords who could have given the SNP a pennyworth of support - Lords Wigley and Ellis Thomas didn't contribute to the debate at all!

I am not surprised because both of the Plaid lords have reneged on the Welsh National cause. When they were nearly elected in 1970 and elected with small majorities in 1974 they were both staunch Welsh Nationalists. In 1974 Welsh nationalism was seen as a greater threat to the "brake up of Britain" than Scottish Nationalism. Scottish Nationalism has advanced because SNP MP's remained true to the National cause, whilst Wigley and DET thought more about personal re-election than Nationalism and did nothing to advance Welsh Nationalism.

I have a pragmatic attitude to the House of Lords. I don't like it, the concept of it existence peeves me, but like it or not, whilst it rules over my life I want people of my opinion represented there. Whilst Scotland and Wales are governed by Westminster I want Nationalists in both chambers. It would have been good to hear an SNP Lord's contribution to the Lords debate. But then, when the only two supposed nationalists, jib out of the debate one has to question the value of their membership of the House!

I thought that one of the few Welsh Lords who contributed to the discussion, my friend and minister The Rev Lord Roger Roberts of Llandudno made a pertinent point that if Scotland became independent:

"The immediate cry would be for Welsh independence. People such as me who are in favour of a federal solution for the whole UK—we have not really spoken about that—might join the independence bandwagon, because Wales would be ruled by a party that had never been in the majority there, and that represented only 20% of its people."

I hope Scotland votes yes and look forward to welcoming Roger into the Welsh independence bandwagon.

As to comments made by many Noble Lords about people fighting in World War 1 for Britain – the recruitment posters posted in Wales were generally an encouragement for Welsh Recruits to support "Welsh Nationalism" (look at the comment in the sun). I suspect that the same was true in Scotland!

There is something sick in the British State using Welsh and Scottish Nationalism to support a war and then using the war to oppose our nationalism! A sickness worth remembering in the 1914-18 memorial and especially on Sept 18 2014!


  1. Gave up on DET a long time ago, but Wigley seems sound?

    1. Elis-Thomas has always been an intellectual gymnast who has treated Welsh Nationalism as an academic theory to be grappled with rather than a creed to be followed; whenever he makes a statement one must always add quote marks to it and add - discuss at the end! Wigley, on the other hand, let the National cause down by claiming that Plaid has Never Ever Supported Independence - as a fact - not as a point of discussion; and THAT, was unforgivable!

  2. To be fair since the SNP correctly in my view do not nominate people to sit in the Second Camber because its a insult to be democracy being unelected we can't expect the Two Plaid members to act as surrogates to speak on their behalf

    1. I don't care about the British Constitution - I want Wales out of it. I don't want Wales to be part of "The United Republic"; I don't want Wales to be ruled by a democratically elected second Westminster chamber. Welsh and Scottish Nationalists agonising about the Royals and the Lords piss me off - the way to get rid of them is through supporting independence NOT by supporting reforming the British constitution!

      The SNP don't nominate people to sit in the Lords because they had their bums bitten in 1974 - they nominated half a dozen or so of the Scottish Great and the Good to sit in the Lords - all of whom took the Tory whip! Plaid was offered the same opportunity by Harold Wilson but declined! The "principled party" is Plaid, who at least waited to get "Elder Statesmen" into the Lords rather than the SNP who buggered the opportunity up by nominating too soon!

    2. Lets be honest as per the "Better together" campaign in Scotland there is very little positive about the imperial British state, certainly not if you are one of the vassal Countries that make up the imperial rump. Ruled by a corrupt parasitic elite who pay themselves what they can get away with and then rub salt in the wounds by taking advantage of the generous tax avoidance "loopholes" to feed their insatiable greed. The vast majority of the UK population suffer under funded public services, long working hours, draconian anti working class legislation as well as levels of poverty and inequality that would shame many third world Countries. The question isn't "why are Scotland seeking their freedom" but "why havent we the courage to join them"!