Ian Duncan Smith has suggested that the Benefits System needs to be simplified. He has said that there are far too many benefits, that the system is complicated and that it puts too many claimants in a benefits trap where it isn't worth their while looking for jobs, because gaining a job will make them worse off!
The knee jerk reaction of the left wing is to moan that Mr Smith just wants to demonise those not in work in order to cut their benefits and save money!
I don't believe that this is so.
There is no doubt that some tabloids do demonise the out of work in a counterproductive way. The Daily Hate Mail thinks that anybody who is on Incapacity Benefit is a scrounger, a shirker and a cheat and takes every opportunity to vilify them. This makes it harder for a beneficiary of Incapacity Benefit to gain employment! Would you offer a job to a scrounger, a shirker and a cheat?
Demonization of those not in work is bad, and the Tories should encourage their supporters in the press to desist from it. Likewise the left should resist from condemning all benefit changes as an attack on the poor, because there is little doubt that the current benefits system is a complicated mess, that is a hindrance to the poor gaining meaningful employment!
With a coalition Tory government that depends on Liberal attitudes to benefits, and which may depend on the votes of sensible people from the opposition benches to offset Neanderthal views from its own benches the benefit system has never had a better chance to be dragged up to date. I hope that it is.
To save the there are no jobs to be had commentators from keyboard fatigue – I believe that the benefits system is in desperate need of reform whether the unemployment numbers go up, down or remain the same!
Making the system fair is as important as taking people out of the system, Plaid, SNP and sensible Labour MP's should seize the chance, to work with Mr Duncan Smith in order to create a benefits system that is worthy of today's circumstances!
100% agree.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteForgive me for spoiling the chorus of agreement, but-
ReplyDelete"To save the there are no jobs to be had commentators from keyboard fatigue – I believe that the benefits system is in desperate need of reform whether the unemployment numbers go up, down or remain the same!"
On the surface that is a completely fair point, that there should be changes to the system regardless of jobs/employment, but the reality is that in many parts of Wales (and the whole of the UK) unemployment would reach the 20% mark, possibly the highest in the industrialised world, certainly higher than Ireland, the United States and other economies currently doing worse than Wales.
What you dismiss as "keyboard fatigue" then becomes a bit more real MOF! It makes Thatcherite unemployment look like a drop in the ocean.
That is not a realistic political scenario or acceptable for any society like ours.
I completely agree that there is a benefits trap by the way and believe that increasing the minimum wage would address this.
If unemployment in Wales is set to rise to 20% (and I sincerely hope that it doesn't) surely that gives an even greater urgency for people of good will to work together across party lines to create a fair benefits system, because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about. By taking a knee jerk "all Tory's are bastards" approach what the left is doing is condemning 20% of our people to the vicious circle of the benefits trap, to a system that concentrates on their incapacity rather than their abilities and to the attacks of the extreme right wing.
ReplyDeleteMiddle class armchair socialists who have no experience of life on benefits, but who use those on benefits as pawns in their political game, are just as bad as the Daily Mail commentators.
Most recipients of benefits that I know want a fair benefits system, they want a benefits system that helps them gain employment rather than hinders them, I would have hoped that they would gain Plaid Cymru's suport for their aspirations.
"By taking a knee jerk "all Tory's are bastards" approach what the left is doing is condemning 20% of our people to the vicious circle of the benefits trap, to a system that concentrates on their incapacity rather than their abilities and to the attacks of the extreme right wing. "
ReplyDeleteCan you clarify what you mean by 'the left'? If you mean Labour, then i'd certainly agree that their approach is flawed. After all, they originally proposed these welfare reforms (whether you think that is a good thing or a bad thing).
I don't disagree on the point about incapacity and the trap. If by 'the left' you mean Plaid, then i'd disagree because Hywel Williams MP's (and Jonathan Edwards MP who now looks to be leading on the issue for Plaid) approach to this issue has been enlightened and evidence-based and supported by groups like the CAB and others- they also argued that job creation is the way forward. When the market is only predicting 4,000 new jobs to be created in the Welsh private sector in the next four years (see A Change of Personnel's blog) and the fact we have hundreds of thousands on benefits, then the idea that a right-wing approach can get people out of the trap you rightly identify is not an idea that intelligent people would support.
"Middle class armchair socialists who have no experience of life on benefits, but who use those on benefits as pawns in their political game, are just as bad as the Daily Mail commentators"
Let's just again look at that comment. Are you referring to New Labour MPs? In which case I completely agree- benefit claimants are being exploited by them as pawns in their anti-Tory game and i'd 100% agree they're just as bad as the Tories, the Daily Mail and anyone else.
If however you think Hywel Williams, Jonathan Edwards (and even Elfyn Llwyd who also opposes these welfare reforms) are armchair socialists who have no experience, then i'd disagree. Edwards for example worked for the CAB and obviously has first hand experience.
I may well be getting this wrong and you may mean Labour when you say "the left", but I simply refuse to accept that Plaid's parliamentary group has been anything other than reasonable and progressive on this and that their approach has been motivated by anything other than the first-hand evidence and advice they are receiving from the people that work on the front line day to day dealing with people that require welfare.
When you write-
"Most recipients of benefits that I know want a fair benefits system, they want a benefits system that helps them gain employment rather than hinders them, I would have hoped that they would gain Plaid Cymru's suport for their aspirations."
I am completely confident that Plaid actually does believe in that- I think you are not aware of Plaid's actual aspirational position on welfare reform, or that because you believe yourself to be "on the right" there must be some truth to what Iain Duncan Smith etc are advocating.
There is no democratic government in the western world that could stay in office with 20% unemployment, which is precisely why Iain Duncan Smith's ideological inspiration, Margaret Thatcher, altered the rules in the first place to create all of these designations.
I say all this in a completely respectful manner by the way!
By the left, in this instance, I just mean anybody from whatever party who takes the attitude that anything proposed by a Conservative or somebody that they perceive to be "right wing" must, by definition, be bad. That includes too many people in Labour and Plaid.
ReplyDeleteThis idea that any policy that is proposed by them must be opposed because they are not us, is the unacceptable face of modern politics.
I fully supported Plaid's pension policy proposed in the last Westminster election. Listening to Liberal Democrat and Labour politicians ridicule the policy, not on merit, not on value, not because they thought that a fair deal for pensioners was wrong, but just because the wrong party proposed it was pathetic, unworthy and stomach churning.
I believe that IDS, a number of Conservative MPs, most LD MPs, most nationalist MPs and some Labour MPs want a fair, non punitive benefits system that safeguards people who are out of work and enables them to gain employment, when employment is available.
There is a Tory wing which wants to squeeze benefit claimants until the pips squeak. If opposition parties take an opposition for opposition sake attitude then IDS will have to compromise with the pipsqueak element of his party in order to obtain his reforms. If, on the other hand, parties like Plaid and the SNP feed their policies into the benefits reform package and offer support to IDS then the compromise might be with them rather than with the Daily Hate Mail Tendency.
As they say, politics is the art of the possible, Plaid could make possibilities for its fair benefits policies and other issues out of the current situation by occasionally trying to influence government policy rather than by taking an all Tories are bastards attitude!
"This idea that any policy that is proposed by them must be opposed because they are not us, is the unacceptable face of modern politics."
ReplyDeleteIn what sense does Plaid engage in that behaviour though? They don't at all. For example, the policy of scrapping ID cards is an anti-Labour policy shared by Plaid, SNP, Lib Dems and Tories.
My belief is that the Plaid Cymru MPs are opposing these welfare reforms because they are punitive, unecessary and unjust, rather than just because they're "them". After all the Plaid MPs (and also the SNP) opposed the plans both when Labour proposed them and when the Tories opposed them.
I don't believe that Plaid is taking an "all Tories are bastards attitude!" just as I think it's silly (no offence) for you to suggest Jonathan Edwards, Hywel Williams and Elfyn Llwyd are unprincipled. They are making consistent evidence-based interventions based on the policies decided by the party as a whole.
The idea that Plaid's MPs should suddenly change policy in order to create 20% unemployment at the UK level is baffling and not sensible politics.
There's also the point that you are placing far too much faith in IDS- why on earth would he want or need the 9 or so nationalist MPs feeding anything into his agenda, as there will be enough support for it from the Tory and Lib Dem benches for us not to get a look in. He probably doesn't even know or care what the Plaid or SNP welfare policy is, it's sad to say. Which is why we need to advance the national advancement agenda in both Wales and Scotland.
Seeing as you agreed with the pensions policy, my feeling is that perhaps on welfare you are leaning towards IDS because he appears to be a "genuine, nice guy". I would urge you not to fall into that trap as it is the same one Blair used to justify many of his ruinous and criminal policies.
Sorry but when have I suggested that Jonathan Edwards, Hywel Williams and Elfyn Llwyd are unprincipled?
ReplyDeleteWhere did I suggest that "Plaid's MPs should suddenly change policy in order to create 20% unemployment at the UK whatever that might mean?
When did I suggest that IDS is a genuine, nice guy? You work in Westminster, so you will know, better than I do that IDS is a foul tempered bastard. Apart from Dafydd Wigly he is the nastiest person in politics that I have had the displeasure of knowing!
All I have suggested is that in a period of flux on benefit reform that Plaid should put its pennyworth in!
But you can't see the advantage of doing so, because, I presume, that you are part of the left wing that puts left wing politics before the needs of Wales!
"Sorry but when have I suggested that Jonathan Edwards, Hywel Williams and Elfyn Llwyd are unprincipled?"
ReplyDeleteWith the comment "Middle class armchair socialists who have no experience of life on benefits."
"When did I suggest that IDS is a genuine, nice guy? You work in Westminster, so you will know, better than I do that IDS is a foul tempered bastard. Apart from Dafydd Wigly he is the nastiest person in politics that I have had the displeasure of knowing!"
I do not work in Westminster and have no idea about IDS's personality.
"Where did I suggest that "Plaid's MPs should suddenly change policy in order to create 20% unemployment at the UK whatever that might mean?"
Because I explained that that was the probable consequence of taking IDS's reforms to their logical conclusion (of course, it will not be allowed to happen). I referenced A Change of Personnel who made that claim, and is not a left-wing blogger.
"All I have suggested is that in a period of flux on benefit reform that Plaid should put its pennyworth in!"
Alwyn I completely agree and have agreed with much of what you've said about the benefits trap- I am just trying to match your claims about "the left" to real life incidents where Plaid has been guilty of that behaviour, and I can't find any.
I agree with not attacking the Tories "for the sake of it" because on some issues they are far better than Labour (civil liberties springs to mind).
But on welfare reform my assertion is that Plaid hasn't attacked the Tories "for the sake of it" but has made genuine and constructive contributions. I have not yet seen you challenge that assertion.
"But you can't see the advantage of doing so, because, I presume, that you are part of the left wing that puts left wing politics before the needs of Wales!"
That's just silly and completely undermines your blog which is one of the most interesting and original. A real shame. Just because I might have a point on welfare reform doesn't mean I am championing any cause other than that of the people of Wales. I don't care who is left or who is right, IDS's welfare policies are a pile of poop.