Where is the English National Solidarity for Scotland and Wales?

I, unequivocally support the supporters of a Yes vote in the forthcoming Scotland referendum. I am jealous that the cause for Welsh Independence has not been made so forcibly because I believe that independence for Wales is the only way to get us out of the rut that we are in of being the bottom of the pile in the UK on so many issues. We are bottom of the pile in the UK because of the UK, the only way of dragging Wales away from that situation is by divorcing ourselves from the UK and building our own prosperity.

Having said that, I can understand loyalty to the UK, I can understand the concept of Better Together, I am almost disappointed with the paucity of the arguments made for the continuation of the Union, because I could do much better (if I was that way inclined)!

What I find confusing, however, is the attitude in the debate of those who claim to be English Nationalists.

I am as much a Welsh Nationalist as I am a Scottish Nationalist, in that I believe that Scotland should be an independent Nation. I am as much a Welsh Nationalist as I am an English Nationalist in that I believe that England is a proud historic nation that should control its own independent destiny; because of that I would expect Scottish Nationalists to support Welsh Nationalism (which most do) and English Nationalists to support both Scottish and Welsh Nationalism which, confusingly, very few do.

The most vile comments about Scottish or Welsh self determination, on most comment threads, don't come from those who self identify as British but from those who self identify as English.

In the 1966 World Cup final most of those supporting England were waving Union Flags. In Brazil supporters of England will be waving the English Flag, is that an indication of a change of national identity, where English people see themselves as primarily English? Or just a rag change where the English still see England and Britain as interchangeable words, but are more honest about it and call the whole of this island England now?

Does True English Nationalism exist, or is English Nationalism just another guise for British nationalism?


  1. I can't agree with you more - I know several people on the left in England who are envisaging what England will be like post independence of the "celtic fringe" and they are a very small minority. The problem is that most of the English nationalists are on the far right whose ideas even right leaning nationalists in Wales would prefer not to be associated with. These nationalists tend to be of the imperialist type who yearn for empire. I agree that until we are free of the UK we will never resolve our problems, the UK is structurally ill equipped with dealing with the disparities of wealth within England let alone address the issues of Wales.

  2. I support the Scottish yes vote too, but, where did a recent survey take place in Wales, that said Wales, Ireland and England were begging Scots NOT to go for Independence ? I don't know anyone that was asked.

  3. Just look at your average English nationalists opinion on Cornwall and the Cornish question and you'll learn all you need to know.

    1. I was slightly hopeful of the existence of a new English National Party when the English Democrats were formed some 10 years back, but they quickly became obsessed with the fact that Monmouthshire and Cornwall were English, rather than the fact that England was English; indeed they spent more time and money fighting elections in Monmouthshire than they did in England proper! One of the reasons why I wonder if English Nationaliism exists, or if they are just Brit Nats who believe that England and Britain are different words for the same thing!

  4. This was a comment left on the Plaid Cymru Monmouthshire blog a few weeks ago, it gives an insight into why the English aren't flocking to the nationalist cause yet

    'I think the difference lies in that the prevailing suspicion in England is that an English parliament would be every bit as London-centric as the British one. Where an objection to London focussed rule in Wales and Scotland naturally inspires a desire for devolution at a national level, in England the need is much for a regional shift in power. Add in the fact that most of the more moderate people in England spend half their lives cringing at the antics of various fruitcakes, lunatics and socio-paths that choose to hide behind our flag, there would be a natural reluctance to sign up to anything with a specifically English stamp on it.'

  5. UK to be Python-esque “dead parrot” after Scottish Independence?

    .....It therefore follows, as a matter of trite law, that in the event of Scotland becoming independent this must involve the repeal of the Act of Union 1707. This automatically means that the then new constitutional entity that was created by the Act of Union, namely the “United Kingdom of Great Britain”, will be dissolved.......


  6. I think if you are looking for an inclusive form of English nationalism then look no further than Billy Bragg. Sadly his form of Englishness gets very little publicity with the media more interested in highlighting right wing elements of Englishness. I do think there is an awakening of English identity but again sadly I dont think it will consciously help either Welsh or Scottish nationalism other than by default. We ought to be natural allies all wanting the same goals of National recognition and the desire to develop a society reflective of our seperate hopes dreams and aspirations. We should be working together just as Welsh and Scottish patriots are and do but as one of our friends from Kernow mentioned there is still a lot of imagined English superiority knocking about in English society. Until people like Billy Bragg, of which there are many in England come to the fore, I fear our friends in England will plough their own furrow.

  7. Because of a few hundred years of 'British rule' from London wales would be in the brown stuff overnight if it isn't now, they hate labour in Wales and want Wales to go down to prove some political point, I think independence is more a necessity than a pipe dream.

  8. British has always been translated as English that's the problem,only Scotland is represented alongside England on the 'British Flag.The Commonwealth games (Another dead duck in the water), we saw the BBC Commentators blatantly talking about winners and loser with deliberate bias. E.G. If a Scot, Welsh or Irish won some medal they were 'winning for Britain, if they lost, they were then addressed as Scots, Welsh or Irish ! yet, they broadcast with zeal "Another medal for England !" not biased ? who they kidding ? Factually nothing exists outside London there the problem lies, they live in a bubble. Let the stay there, but let Wales and Scotland get independence. The welsh assembly is being blackmailed left, right and centre and drip-fed handouts as it is.