Labour's Problem with the Patriotic English Working Class

In the days when the Lord Chamberlain's office use to have to censor the morality of stage productions one of the ways in which the Music Hall, in particular, and other production companies use to avoid censorship was by the use of the double entendre A phrase, saying or sentence that can be interpreted in two different ways. One of which is usually dirty. A classic example would be the Mari Lloyd song She Sits Among the Cabbages and Peas a song which is clearly about a lady gardener. If you can see a less innocent meaning to the words it is because you have got a dirty and corrupted mind, and if you have a dirty and corrupted mind you are not fit to be an arbiter of public morality.

And therein lays a problem with the Labour response to Emily Thornberry's controversial tweet:

Image from #Rochester pic.twitter.com/rOjTgpskmF

— Emily Thornberry MP (@EmilyThornberry) November 20, 2014

The picture IS just an Image from Rochester, that the Labour Party, as a whole, can see a double entendre in the picture - that is so damaging that it has lead to Thornberry's registration / sacking, revels a great deal about Labour's corporate thinking about those who live in terraced houses, work in white van jobs, are proud to be English – that they saw the "joke" reveals as much about the rest of the Labour party's thinking as it does about Ms Thornberry's.

Where is the English National Solidarity for Scotland and Wales?

I, unequivocally support the supporters of a Yes vote in the forthcoming Scotland referendum. I am jealous that the cause for Welsh Independence has not been made so forcibly because I believe that independence for Wales is the only way to get us out of the rut that we are in of being the bottom of the pile in the UK on so many issues. We are bottom of the pile in the UK because of the UK, the only way of dragging Wales away from that situation is by divorcing ourselves from the UK and building our own prosperity.

Having said that, I can understand loyalty to the UK, I can understand the concept of Better Together, I am almost disappointed with the paucity of the arguments made for the continuation of the Union, because I could do much better (if I was that way inclined)!

What I find confusing, however, is the attitude in the debate of those who claim to be English Nationalists.

I am as much a Welsh Nationalist as I am a Scottish Nationalist, in that I believe that Scotland should be an independent Nation. I am as much a Welsh Nationalist as I am an English Nationalist in that I believe that England is a proud historic nation that should control its own independent destiny; because of that I would expect Scottish Nationalists to support Welsh Nationalism (which most do) and English Nationalists to support both Scottish and Welsh Nationalism which, confusingly, very few do.

The most vile comments about Scottish or Welsh self determination, on most comment threads, don't come from those who self identify as British but from those who self identify as English.

In the 1966 World Cup final most of those supporting England were waving Union Flags. In Brazil supporters of England will be waving the English Flag, is that an indication of a change of national identity, where English people see themselves as primarily English? Or just a rag change where the English still see England and Britain as interchangeable words, but are more honest about it and call the whole of this island England now?

Does True English Nationalism exist, or is English Nationalism just another guise for British nationalism?

Who are the anti-English?

According to the Scotsman, BBC reporter Andrew Marr has claimed that Anti English Feeling is Entrenched in Scotland and is the basis of the Yes campaign for Scottish independence. So much for BBC neutrality!

To many people the terms United Kingdom / Britain / England are coterminous. It is beyond their ability to accept that England isn't the UK and the UK isn't England!

The problem with Andrew Marr's comments is that he cannot distinguish between being opposed to the UKainian State and being Anti-English!

As a proud Welsh Nationalist I have no hesitation in saying that I am 100% Pro-English. I support the Yes cause in Scotland, I want Wales to be part of the family of World Nations and I want England, a nation that I love and have a huge amount of respect for, to be an Independent World Nation too!

The anti-English are the pro UKainians in the Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat and UKIP parties - who cannot perceive the concept That England is a Nation in its own right, rather than a by-word for Britain / the UK!

It is not the pro Welsh in Plaid, the pro Scots in the SNP or the pro Cornish in MK who are anti-English. The parties who oppose Plaid, the SNP and MK are the ones who don't want England to flourish as a nation in its own right! They are the truly anti-English.


(Photo credit and HT to https://twitter.com/SteCymru14)

The English Question

"English votes for English matters" is a non starter, it contains so many problems that it will cause more animosity and strife than it could possibly resolve.

What is an English matter? Under the current system few are, because if expenditure is involved (be it spending more or less) it has Barnet consequentials for the finances of the devolved bodies!

What happens to things that are neither English only nor UK wide issues such as England and Wales measures? And what about those things that are non devolved Wales only issues – S4C, Welsh water, the governance of Assembly elections? Will English MPs be allowed to vote on those issues?

As far as English regionalism is concerned England already has historic regions – they are called shires or counties and parishes. All the countries of the UK should, without doubt, re devolve many of the powers that the counties and the parishes had pre 1974, which have increasingly been centralised; but I see little desire for creating "new" regions for England.

From a Welsh nationalist point of view I don't like the idea of English regional devolution. Wales has its Assembly, at the moment, because it is one of the nations of the UK; regionalise England and Wales reverts to being a region of the UK.

There is no way that the clock can be turned back on devolution in the foreseeable future, and there is no way that the English question can remain unresolved. Any threat to abolish the devolved institutions will lead to Scottish, and possibly Welsh independence. So there appear to be only two options available independence for the nations of Britain or Federalism, perhaps we should have a UK wide referendum on which we all would prefer!

This post is a response to discussions on:
http://oggybloggyogwr.blogspot.com/2011/04/england-question.html

http://ogarethhughes.blogspot.com/2011/02/question.html

http://toque.co.uk/node/1890

If any other bloggers have made reasonable and non racist comments on the issue and would like a link to their posts, please let me know.

The Belly or the Chequebook?

John Jones is unemployed.

He gets Jobseekers allowance through the Llandudno JobCenter. His benefit is clearly noted as one paid in Wales.

When he visits the JobCenter on Monday he sees a job that fits his profile so he applies for it. The interview is on Friday, so in preparation he goes to Asda to buy a new suit, he buys the cheapest one, of course (he is on benefits).

Despite buying the suite in ASDA Llandudno, Wales, and paying VAT on his purchase, that VAT isn't a tax paid in Wales; the tax will be paid in Leeds, where ASDA has its accounting office.

The person who serves him on the clothing counter lives in Wales and works in Wales, but her income tax will also be paid in Leeds, because her pay check will be taxed in head office.

John gets the job, so he comes off the Welsh benefit take, but his job is also taxed in England so he doesn't become part of Wales' contribution to taxation.

Of course it is swings and roundabouts.

John's new job may involve manufacturing a component that is created in Wales and is exported to the rest of the world, something that is measured on a Wales basis and will show up as a plus in Welsh exports.

But remember that cheep suit he bought in Wales in order to go to the interview? That was probably imported through England, so statistics that show that Wales has a good balance of payments between imports and exports might not be as good as it first looks.

The fact is that the UK produces economic statistics for UK reasons. The UK would never, ever produce economic details that promoted nationalism.

Data that proved beyond doubt that Scotland or Wales or, Heaven forbid, even England would be better off outwith the UK will never, ever be available.

Of course the complete lack of proper data is a means to an end. Without the data we can't make a proper decision based on economic policy as to whether nationalism is good for our nation's economy, or a recipe for disaster. That is precisely why the data isn't available!

We can argue these economic points till kingdom come, but why should we?

Shouldn't the campaigns for English, Scottish, Cornish and Welsh self determination come from a fire in the belly rather than from a chequebook?

ABE - I've Changed my Mind!

Despite having said that I was going to support A B E on the Wales Home site, I have changed my mind.

Apart from Welsh politics my other delight is family history, which can be an expensive business when one has to pay for access to family history sites such as Find My Past.

Find my Past has pay to view family history records that include all the England and Wales Census records from 1841 to 1911, an index of Birth Marriage and Death indices from 1837 t0 2006 and many more records.

During the World Cup Find my Past has a bargain for those who do not want to watch the footy:

If you're not football mad, there is something else to do during the World Cup – make it your goal to research your family history.

You can view all the records on findmypast for free during every England World Cup match – all you need to do is register.

How it works:

30 minutes before kick-off we'll stop charging for 3 hours, which should give you plenty of time to explore what we have to offer

England will play on / at
12/06 19:30 BST
18/06 19:30 BST
23/06 15:00 BST

South Africa is currently in Winter and working on GMT so add an hour for international world clocks based on GMT.

Of course if England succeeds to progress beyond the first stage there will be even more free time available on Find My Past, another four games / 12 hours if they go through to the final or the 3rd place play offs!

So come on Eng-earl-and!!!

MOF MP!

I am now a Member of Parliament, not any old parliament like that thing in Westminster, but a Member of The English Parliament.

If you believe that England is a nation that deserves its own national parliament you can become a member too by joining The English Parliament online.

Happy St George's Day

To my Canadian, Cappadocian, Catalan, Ethiopian, Lithuanian, Georgian, German, Greek, Maltese, Palestinian, and Portuguese readers and friends.

To all from Appignano del Tronto, Carpeneto, Cerreto, Grue, Ferrara, Genoa, Hone, Modica Sicily, Arcole, Nerola, Riano and Venice in Italy.

To those from Aragon in Spain, Beirut in the Lebanon, Constantinople / Istanbul in Turkey, Moscow in Russia, Ptuj in Slovenia, Amersfoort in the Netherlands, and Senjin Croatia.

To the shepherds, butchers, farmers and agricultural workers; crusaders, armourers and equestrians; Boy Scouts, archers, soldiers and knights.

To those who suffer from herpes, leprosy, the plague, skin diseases, rashes and syphilis and all the others that St George represents

But most of all to all my English friends and readers:

Have a Very Good Saint George's Day!

O Dear! Mr Johnston

England Rugby boss Martin Johnston should be aware that some of those viewing games on the tv can lip-read. Although his abusive remarks about his own team were not audible, they were very clearly mouthed. Lip reading foul mouthed obscenities is just as objectionable on Saturday afternoon television as is hearing it!

Lefty Saxon Gnat

I came across this blog whilst blog surfing earlier today:

Rebellion Sucks

A Socialist English Nationalist Blog. Most Welsh and Scottish nationalist blogs are left wing. English Nationalism seems always to be portrayed as right wing.

Now, being a tad to the right myself, I usually have more sympathy for the English national cause than I do for the lefty Welsh national cause. But it is good to see that there are some lefties who support England's self-determination.

Now where are the right in Wales who support my Welsh Nationalism and me?

Does the BBC have a pro-England news bias?

Under a headline Allegations over BBC pro-England news bias the Western Mail reports:

THE BBC is to launch a major inquiry following allegations that Wales is poorly served by its UK network news operation, the Western Mail can reveal today.
Tomorrow the BBC Trust will announce that two experts specialising in politics and the media will examine the coverage of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland on flagship news programmes such as News at 10 and other bulletins presented by newsreaders like Huw Edwards and Fiona Bruce.

The BBC won't have to spend too much on their inquiry. The answer is clear, there is very little information about events in the smaller nations of the UK on programmes such as News at Ten. Indeed if one depended on the BBC's British output to find news about the Welsh Assembly almost the only thing that would be known from this year is that the Assembly killed a holly bullock.

However I believe that the Western Mail's headline editor is mistaken, and that the BBC is asking the wrong question in their review. Rather than a pro-English bias the BBC news service has an anti-English bias.

Wales and Scotland have their own national news services, there may be questions about quality and the inability to attract sufficient viewers, but a Scot or a Welsh person can choose to watch Scottish or Welsh national news and current affairs programmes. The only country in the UK that doesn’t have its own national news coverage is England, an English person is totally dependent on the UK service to find out what's happening in England.

Since devolution, politics in England is clearly different to the politics of Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland. One of the weaknesses of the BBC's (and other channels') news and current affairs programmes is that they don't acknowledge this by providing a service specifically for England.

If there was a national news service for England one of the effects would naturally be a more balanced representation of what is happening in all of the nations of the UK in what was left of UK wide current affairs programming.

England or South Africa?

I am not very interested in sports. I have never quite understood the significance of the fact that my country is better than your country because a dozen or so of my compatriots can kick, throw, head or bat a ball better than a dozen or so of your compatriots.

Having said that I am aware of how politically significant 1966 was. 1966 was important not just because England won the football World Cup, but that it was won by beating Germany. It was the real end of the two world wars. Had England won in 66 by beating France, Brazil, Sweden or Argentina, it wouldn't have been half as significant an event as beating Germany was.

Every England supporter over the age of 21 had been born during or before the war. They had known the feeling that England had won the wars in theory but had lost out in practice. 1966 proved that England WAS better than Germany.

1966 was also important because it showed that England was a nation and not an euphemism for Britain as had been the case before. England beat the Fritz, alone in 66, without the help of Scotland, Wales or the Irish Unionists.

England won the rugby World Cup in 2003. England has probably more than a 50/50 chance of being the first country to win the cup twice in a row, but even two rugby World Cups wont add up to the significance of 1966.

But yet the thought that England might win is enough to send some of my sport loving acquaintances into fits of apoplexy - including those who claim to consider themselves to be more British than Welsh, they will be shouting for South Africa on Saturday rather than our neighbours who share this island with us. Why?

Gwe, Ceredig and Normal have written about British / Welsh identity recently and have all claimed that a dual identity is possible. Can they explain how this dual Welsh / British identity can also be so anti English?

I have little interest in the outcomes of sporting events, but as a quarter of my ancestry is English and none is South African, I wish England all the best for Saturday.

Which team will other Welsh bloggers support: England or South Africa? Let me know who and why in the comments

English Votes for English MPs

According to a report in Scotland on Sunday, Gordon Brown and all Scottish MPs will be excluded from voting on England-only laws under radical Conservative plans to be unveiled this week.

Tory leader David Cameron is poised to back a major overhaul of the Westminster system under which all 529 English MPs would meet separately as a "grand committee" to decide on their own legislation. MPs would then be expected to sit out any full vote in the Commons.

It would be up to the Speaker to designate legislation as English-only.

I can understand why the Conservatives are supporting this move. It is clearly wrong that non-English MPs should have undue influence over English affairs that will have no effect on their own constituents.

However there are some major problems with trying to deal with the English Devolution deficit in the way that the Tories propose.

Firstly, of course the current Speaker is a Scot. I can't see many English people being pleased if the decision to designate any issue as an UK or an English one was to be in the hands of a single Scot! (Although I understand that Speaker Martin is standing down at the next election).

More importantly is the position of Wales. Unlike Scotland, Wales doesn’t have legislative devolution - we only have executive devolution. All the Assembly can do is implement and modify laws passed for the whole of England and Wales.

Those things that have, quite understandably, upset English people such as the Assembly voting to abolish prescription charges in Wales at the same time as Welsh Labour MPs were voting to increase prescription charges in England don’t happen by the Assembly passing a Welsh Law. They happen when the Assembly decides to modify the implementation of an England and Wales Law. If the English law didn't exist, the Welsh modification couldn't happen.

So under the Conservative proposal how do the England and Wales Acts that include clauses that allow the Assembly to go its own way get passed? Clearly such laws would not be England only laws so the idea that Welsh MP's should be excluded from voting on them is unacceptable. But if Welsh MPs do take part in passing them we would still have a situation where Welsh MPs would be voting on laws that will be implemented in different ways in both countries, which will not resolve the devolution deficit in England.

Laws passed in Westminster have to be passed by both the Commons and the Lords. Defining what an English MP is is easy, but what is an English Lord? Is Rowan Williams, the Welsh born Primate of all England, an English or a Welsh member of the House of Lords? Or will Scottish Lords still be able to vote on English or England and Wales only laws?

Will English MPs be prohibited from passing reserved power Wales only laws? If not it will be clearly unfair if English MPs can vote on Welsh Laws but English laws can't voted on by Welsh MPs. On the other hand if only Welsh MPs can only vote on Welsh Laws then Wales will end up with two devolved bodies the Assembly and the Welsh Grand Committee, where as the English will only have one again unfair.

The Conservatives are to be congratulated on realising that the devolution deficit in England is a real problem that urgently needs to be address, it’s a shame that they have decided to go for a dog's breakfast of an answer. Surely the sensible answer to the problem would be for England to have its own devolved parliament or assembly.

Englandandwales Pub Quiz

Q1 What's the biggest lake in Cuba and Japan?

Q2 What's the longest street in Trinidad and Norway?

Q3 What's the highest mountain in England and Wales?

Q4 Why are the first two questions daft and the third one, one that all can answer?

Resurrection of English Regional Devolution

When it came to office back in 1997 Tony Blair's government had plans to change the constitution of the whole of the Britain through devolution. Scotland and Wales were to be devolved first, and this was to be followed by devolution to the English regions. The plan came unstuck in 2004 when voters in the northeast of England voted decisively against regional devolution. The northeast was seen as the most likely to vote in favour, when they chose not to it became clear that no other English region would support devolution either.

According to an article in today's edition of the Sunday Herald Gordon Brown intends to resurrect English regional devolution when he becomes Prime Minister.

English regional devolution is a matter of great importance to Brown, because of his fear that his Scottishness might be a handicap in the next Westminster election. A number of English people already wonder why he should be allowed to be Prime Minister with overall responsibility over a number of departments and their policies, when those policies will only affect England and where the departments responsible for his home patch are governed by a different parliament and a different party.

Of course there is no more call for English regional devolution today than there was back in 2004, and no referendum in any region has a chance of producing a vote in favour of devolution. Brown may, therefore, attempt to avoid the need for referenda altogether. England already has Regional Assemblies, statutory bodies where councillors and representatives of public and voluntary organisations meet to discuss things such as regional development. Brown might just decide to "democratise" these bodies, by having their members elected rather than nominated.

Such plans must be resisted

Firstly because Cornwall is part of the South West of England Region, which includes the whole of the southwestern peninsula. Cornwall is a nation that deserves its own parliament, it is an insult to the people of Cornwall to treat them as a minor part of an English region

Secondly because such a scheme would degrade the national status of Wales and Scotland, they would be seen to be on a par with an English region such as the west Midlands rather than nations

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, because England is a nation too. The only way to treat England, Scotland and Wales equally is by creating a parliament for England and not by creating nine English Assemblies.

Cymraeg: Atgyfodi Datganoli i Loegr
Other blogs on this subject:
Tommy English: England is not a country.....
Ourkingdom: England's Turn for its own parliament

No support for SNP North of the Border.

North of the Border is a very tired old euphemism for Scotland wherever it is used, but I suppose that it is acceptable when used by London based newspapers.

Where the use of the term North of the Border for Scotland is absolutely ridiculous is when it appears in the Welsh media. I do wish the Western Mail and Daily Post would stop using it. The only place that is north of the Welsh border is the Wirral. Despite the huge opinion poll ratings that the SNP is receiving, they are not expected to make any gains in the local council elections north of our border.

The Land of my Mothers

Like many Welsh Nationalists I am not Pure Welsh. My family tree contains many non-Welsh names such as Purcell, Smallman, Crump etc. From a genealogical point of view I am probably as much an Englishman as I am a Welshman. My place as a little cog in the World's mechanism is, however, undoubtedly a Welsh one.

Because of the family tree and other connections I am very fond of England, and feel more miserable than usual when I hear some Welsh Nationalists slagging of the Land of my Mothers.

I support independence for England; I support the right of England to play its part as one of the free nations of the world without being shackled to Wales and Scotland.

The argument that Welsh Nationalists are anti-English should be nailed on the head. The anti-English are the same people who are anti-Welsh they are the Unionists who oppose freedom for both Wales and England

Cymraeg:
Hen Rech Flin: Hen Wlad Fy Mamau