Falling out in England?

There appears to be a split in the English Democrat Party.

The split seems to be on two grounds:

A) Some people are uncertain whether the EDP is for Independence for England or for Devolution / Federalism to include England within the UK

B)Others seem to find the EDP as just anti-Scottish rather than pro English.

As disappointing as learning about this split is, it reminds me of the pangs of both the SNP and Plaid Cymru in the 60's. Something that the EDP might learn and reflect on.

If one goes back in history the SNP use to follow Plaid Cymru.

Since 1979 that changed. The SNP took the lead.

The reason is clear, since 1979 Plaid has dallied with different forms of devolution, federalism etc, for fear of losing its 70’s gains. Plaid has avoided the I (shhh - for independence) word. Plaid has been in the doldrums. The SNP has come to the ascendancy by sticking to plain and simple Independence.

The SNP is the government in Scotland, whilst Plaid props up Labour with dreams of what might happen in 2051.

Whatever the academic support for Plaid’s evolution of devolution or the intellectual ideas behind federalism, both are woolly ideas that aren’t made for popular support. People know what independence is. It is a clear cut idea that one is either for or against.

If the EDP wants electoral success it should follow the SNP’s clear cut independence line, rather than Plaid’s maybe, sort of, independence line.

As for the EDP being anti-Scottish (or Welsh)I can only ask, why not?

Welsh, Scottish, Cornish and English nationalists do have things in common, where we can work in common we should do so.

But if you are an English person who thinks that you have been let down, ripped off or otherwise disappointed by your Celtic neighbours, shout out loud about the iniquity. Nobody else will shout out for you, and lying back an thinking of England wont stop us Celts from shouting at you.

Stand up proud for independence for England!


  1. what a poor post. I hate plaid. plaid are bad. change the record please!!!

  2. In the spirit of nationalist cooperation you should join the Witanagemot Club.

  3. Anon,

    He wasn't actually being very nice to Plaid, so give him a break.

    You make the mistake of comparing Wales with Scotland and consequently Plaid with the SNP. The comparison is not a fair one which is why the parties have different strategies.

  4. The same 'anti-Welsh/anti-Scottish' attitude could be said about the CEP (Campaign for an English Parliament) - although my view is based solely on reading comments on it's blog, rather than a reflection of it's actual policies.

    The actual articles on the CEP blog are always enjoyable and factually correct, and make very good points. It certainly fills a void left by the media regarding the constitutional inequality, democratic unfairness of voting rights and highlighting differences in services from country-to-country (although this is less of an issue IMHO as certain things can be better in England than other UK countries)

    Sadly almost every post regarding Wales and Scotland is met with rather unpleasant comments. Also the Cross of St George forum (linked to from EDP homepage) contains a lot of nasty posts about how Muslims are taking over England (and the world!) - type the word 'Muslin' into the search box and get 800+ results.

    I don't see why some of the comments or why you think a nationalist party should be 'anti' any other country and am surprised you even suggest such a thing.

    It's taken the main (or only) Welsh nationalist party decades to be taken seriously, and this despite false claims of anti-Englishness. The EDP, CEP and the newly-formed Free England Party have enough of a task persuading people without encouraging accusations of being racist, which will inevitably be thrown at them regardless.

    Both the EDP and FEP are advocating leaving the EU as a core aim, which I think is a mistake. A free England may or may not be better off outside the EU, but I'd have thought it's better to choose one battle at a time, if they won independence for England, then they should decide after that about EU membership.

    Here's a few o EDP election posters for London Elections!

  5. type the word 'Muslin' into the search box and get 800+ results.

    ..and if you type it into Google you can buy Muslin squares in all colours off ebay ;-)

  6. :-p

    You also get 800+ results by typing Muslim as well

  7. To be fair to Plaid, Wales is not Scotland. Wales is much better than Scotland in my opinion, although I might be slightly biased.

    My point is that the public desire for independence is far stronger in Scotland where in Wales there is stronger support for autonomy.

  8. Annon, all my posts are poor and most of them are about my love / hate relationship with Plaid. If you don't like poor posts or posts that mention Plaid don't read my blog.

    Toque I asked to join the Witangemot club 12 months ago - and got turned down by you :-(

    Ian I appreciate that Plaid and the SNP are different parties, with different strategies. If both parties were the same it would be a bit counterproductive. If Scottish, English, Cornish and Welsh nationalist all agreed on everything they may as well be unionists!

    Rhys The idea that a Welsh Nationalist should tell an English Nationalist what to believe is a bit silly.

    Personally I agree with the English Nationalists re Europe. I can't see the point of campaigning for independence from the British Union just to become a smaller cog in an even bigger Union, the Empire of Europe!

    It may be a pity that Welsh and English nationalists can't agree more, but I don't think that any Welsh nationalist can take an holier than thou attitude towards the anti Welsh / Scottish sentiments of English nationalists. Anti Englishness has been a staple part of the Welsh and Scottish diet for a long time, unfortunately.

  9. Kick out the muds and take your country back. What are you waiting for?

  10. I'm not EUrophile myself, and there's no point gaining independence from one big unresponsive state only to give it up to an even larger equally as unresponsive (and even potentially more undemocratic) super-state, but as a strategy, taking on Unionists and the EUrophiles at the same time is crazy.
    As many English nationalists and Unionists point out to PC supporters, independence from the UK would most likely mean Wales had to reapply for EU membership anyway - therefore English nationalists have no need to campaign for both.

  11. I think Plaid have largely reaped the rewards of around 3 decades of political expediency when it comes to the I-word. But that seems to be changing.

    I was pleased to see it bandied around a little bit more forthrightly at the Plaid conference. We need to build from this point and open out a full public debate about independence - both within and without the party.

    Is it any surprise that people don't support anything more than "autonomy" when Independence isn't even on the radar screen?

  12. Independence is proclaimed loud and clear in the blog "Independence Cymru". Plaid's ultimate aim is, and always has been, independence for Wales and a seat in the United Nations. Unfortunately it takes time to achieve this end and nobody is getting any younger. Full law-making powers will come, but independence is the right and just culmination of devolution. All nationalists should work and campaign towards this end.