A response to Guto

Guto Bebb said...

A rather odd posting Alwyn.
Three postings back your view was 'love him or loath him Guto Bebb always raises interesting points'. Now, a few days later, I have become a Cameroon through and through.
So when did my transformation occur? Or does it relate to the growing dismay in the Plaid camp at the collapse of their campaign in Aberconwy?
As I have said before Alwyn - you were much more interesting whne you were less partisan

Guto, between Maes-e, Cai's blog, my blog and your own blog we have been engaged in debate for the past five years or so. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we disagree. If I didn't think that you had raised interesting points worthy of debate, quite frankly, I wouldn't have bothered.

I don't know where you get the idea from that I am more or less partisan now than I was in the past. As you know, from numerous exchanges, I am not a member of any political party.

I voted Conservative in 1992, mainly because Colin Shepherd the Conservative candidate in Hereford's Mam was a friend and neighbour, partially because Colin's opponent was Gwynoro (the man who beat Gwynfor in 1979) and because I was voting in England so had no Plaid candidate to support. However, with this one exception, I have always voted for the Plaid Candidate, when one has stood in my electoral division.

I have not been a member of Plaid Cymru for over 10 years, not since Dafydd Wigley said The party has never ever espoused independence. I am an unashamed Welsh Nationalist, I believe in the espousal of independence.

I am also critical of Plaid Cymru's support for socialism. Socialism is based on reliance on the state, the only state that Wales can rely on at the moment is the British state, so reliance on the British state through Socialism is incompatible with Welsh Nationalism.

Having said all that, the only Welsh nationalist party that I can vote for at the moment is Plaid Cymru. I wish that it wasn't. I would love to be a member of a Welsh (one nation) Conservative Party, but such a beast doesn't exist.

I have not changed, Guto, I stand where I stood 30 years ago.

But you have changed, and changed a lot recently.

You use to be a Nationalist, a stalwart of Plaid Cymru, but when you fell out with Plaid you fell out with Cymru too, and you have become more and more opposed to Wales since.

The truth is, Guto, that I have stood my ground as a right wing nationalist, whilst you are moving closer and closer to David Davies, Stephen Crabb and David Jones. If you are elected there is little doubt that you will be anything other than Tory lobby fodder. You'r recent form has suggested that you wont even be a Sir Wyn or a Geraint Morgan.

During the last week I heard you on Hacio, supporting, in a roundabout way, the True Wales lie that the GoW act referendum will be about independence.

On Radio Cymru on Friday you bigged up the Labour Party's campaign in Aberconwy, in order to keep to the British story that the 2010 election race is a Tory v Labour one, despite the fact that you have accepted, for the past two years, that the real battle in Aberconw is between you and Phil!

I am not a member of the Plad camp, but your increasing anti Welsh desperation suggests that it is not their campaign that is the one collapsing in Aberconwy, but it is your own and that you are going for ever inceasing desperate measures in order to shore it up, and betraying Wales and Aberconwy with every step.

In 2003 I spent some time in the polling booth considering whether to vote for you as a possible new voice that could become a bridge between conservative policy and nationalist sentiment. In the end I voted for the incumbent as the best bet. When the result came through my vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway. But I don't think that you are the bridge between nationalism and conservatism that you were 7 years ago, you are now just a dyed-in-the-wool Brit Tory.

Again It is you who has changed Guto, not me!


  1. I think that is called 'kicking a man when he is down..........'


  2. Guto Bebb is a right-wing British nationalist, and is becoming another example of Tory anti-Welsh lobby-fodder. He has given up anything that made him interesting or principled in his hatred of Plaid, which has in turn become a rather contorted and self-justifying fear of his own country.
    He may get in, he may not, but yet again the tories have shown that their agenda is anti-Welsh, anti-devolution, and anglo-centric. The sad thing is that they still manage to find the Quislings to help them out, even in 2010, and even in our heartlands.

  3. The Tories in Wales also seem to 'import' organisers and canvasser from areas such as Middlewich in Cheshire.

  4. Is UKIP standing in Aberconwy? It could make all the difference to Plaid.

  5. Blogs are so informative where we get lots of information on any topic. Nice job keep it up!!

    Meteorology Dissertation

  6. Change is the only constant surely.......pl

  7. Have heard that a very prominent , welsh business man is standing as an independent in Aberconwy.
    The last one to stand
    even against Wyn
    Roberts polled over 20000 votes .
    How will this help or hinder Guto ?

  8. sorry meant two thousand votes

  9. Yes, UKIP does have a candidate for Aberconwy Mike Wietseka

    I believe that the Greens have also selected a candidate, but I don't know who s/he is.

    I have heard rumours about a local councillor standing as an independent, but have seen no confirmation of this.