The part of the online archive of the paper that Google sent me to was a regular column in which thanks are given to party members and supporters for their financial help. The column for May 22nd included this snippet:
Our fighting fund received help from an unexpected source this week - Plaid Cymru Welsh assembly member Leanne Wood donated a handy £25
What on earth is an elected Plaid Cymru member doing giving financial support to the official mouthpiece of another party?
Doesn't Plaid Cymru have rules that prohibit all members, never mind elected members, from giving support to a party that stands in elections against it?
I have thought for some time that some on the left of the party harm Plaid by putting Socialism before Nationalism - indeed this is the main reason why I feel unable to be a party member. But even I was shocked to discover that this support for socialism is so extreme that a leading light of Plaid's left wing would go as far as giving financial backing to The Communist Party of Great Britain.
It's time for Leanne Wood and her supporters to decide where their loyalties lie. Is it with the cause of Welsh Nationalism or the cause of British Communism?
Leanne probably made the doation as a private person and not in her official capacity, Alwyn.
ReplyDeletePersonally I cannot see anything wrong with this, and it would be unfair to tarnish her with the label of communist. Plaid is an umbrella for all political persuasions, and its aim is for an independent Wales and the welfare of Welsh people, not as a vehicle
for ideolology per se.
In case anyone is confused the Communist Party of Great Britain is not the same party as the Communist Party who had an election broadcast in Wales in 2007and linked with the Morning Star newspaper, the current CPGB also bares no relation to the historical organisation of that name founded in the 20s that had MPs in parliament such as Willie Gallacher, Phil Piratin, Shapurji Saklatvala and a few others.
ReplyDeleteThe original British Communist Party, the CPGB. fell apart around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, the rump is now called the Communist Party of Britain.
Somehow a small left wing group with 20 members nationally acquired the rights to the name "CPGB" this group publish a strange newspaper called the "Weekly Worker" that became infamous as combining obscure theoretical articles, for example on the Church of England with agossip sheet devoted to intrigues around the far left, the famous "Ukrainian trotskyist financial fraud" front page:
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/495/scam.html
Strange for Leanne Wood to be donating money to such an unworthwhile cause, but perhaps she enjoys this kind of stuff, but how she gets her kicks is her own affair!
Communist Party of Britain:
http://www.communist-party.org.uk/
Communist Party of Great Britain
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/
Alan - she has given money to the communist party so i hardly think its unfair to tarnish her with the label of communist!! I also believe that a lot of plaid members would be p***ed off with you spouting that plaid is an umbrella for all political persusions when it is meant to be a centre left party. I support independence and plaid but cant be a member because i am more centre right in my political leanings and i cannot stand this pacifist PC nonsense that is spued by some of the members
ReplyDeleteIn the 80s lots of commies infiltrated the Labour Party, a tactic trotskyites refer to as 'entrism' until they were outed and booted out, perhaps the same thing is going on with Plaid? I'd be interested to know if Leanne Wood is a member of the Communist Party, I recall another interview in which she cited Rhondda Communist, Annie Powell as a major influence.
ReplyDeleteAlan it appears that there is nothing that a member of your party can do that you wont defend.
ReplyDeleteThe "private" capacity argument is futile because Leanne is thanked as a "Plaid Cymru Welsh assembly member" quite publicly in the Communist magazine.
Even if she made the donation in a private capacity she has still broken party rules by making a donation to an opposing political party as surely as she would have done if she had sent her £25 to the Conservative Party or the Labour Party.
Plaid Cymru is not an umbrella for all political persuasion, the leftists have made it quite clear that there is no room in the party for those of us who are of a center right persuasion
In the 80s there was a group called the Militant Tendency in Labour they were a 'party within the party' a far left organisation who infiltrated Labour in order to take it over and gained control of one Labour council, they were thankfully kicked out of Labour in the 80s.
ReplyDeleteSome will wonder if Leanne Wood secretly has communist membership as witnessed in her donations to the Commie magazine and referring to Communist Annie Powell as a key influence. Could there be a secret hard-left faction with the Party of Wales trying to use our party as a viechle for power. We are one nation in Wales not class war extremist zealots! Thanks to Alwyn for this exposee
Leanne probably belongs with this bunch of commie scum:
ReplyDeletewww.cardiffrespect.blogspot.com
The woman does not belong in the Assembly!
ReplyDeleteWell done, Alwyn. I can see why you don't endorse Plaid Cymru.
ReplyDeleteThis woman has form: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4700953.stm
I think that concentration on ideological issues endangered the cause of nationalism by dividing those with rightist leaning from those of leftist leanings. Agreed, Plaid Cymru is a left of centre, radical and progressive party and I support that, but the issue is independendence and this will not be achieved by disunity.
ReplyDeleteLet nationalists steer away from ideological viewpoints and focus on the goal of independendence. The rest can come later.
(as in Ireland)
Alan, it doesn't work like that. She has wronged your party. Your defending someone who is damaging the cause you support so much.
ReplyDeleteI see the issue as her being thanked as a "Plaid AM", rather than as Ms Leanne Wood. That is probably the magazine capitalising on her name, rather than her subscribing as an AM.
ReplyDeleteHer socialist views etc are all on record, no secret. She probably reads the magazine because it covers issues she is concerned with, whether she agrees with their views or not. It's like me becoming a Plaid AM: I would still read a Green Party magazine or whatever, because it covers issues that I care about. I don't see it as a conflict of interest really, more "homework".
I bet Labour people read Conservative magazines, and vice-versa. To limit someone's knowledge is to limit their effectiveness.
I bet Labour people read Conservative magazines, and vice-versa
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between picking up a copy and reading it and donating money to the CPGB fighting fund.
Leanne Wood is also mentioned on the Communist Party wikipedia page:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Wales
A Plaid Assembly Member funding the Communist Party? I accuse Leanne Wood of holding secret membership of the Communist Party, "entrism" -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entryism - is a classic red technique, members of communist organisations infiltrate mainstream political parties in order to take them over or destroy them.
It pains me to see our nation associated with totalitarianism. Hey Leanne! The Soviet Union's gone, and my idea of independent Wales is not modelled on North Korea!
So what joins Plaid together? Independence, not if you listen to the differing views of Cynog Dafis and Adam Price.
ReplyDeleteI agree with alanindyfed about the Plaid umbrella.
ReplyDeleteMost parties have a number of different traditions. In Plaid there's the rabid socialism of people like Leanne Wood and the more conservative nationalism of Dafydd Wigley and Eurfyl ap Gwilym etc.
Miserable Old Fart complains about Leanne Wood "putting Socialism before Nationalism". That's the best way round, don't you think? Otherwise you end up with national socialism. If you don't have some sort of political ideology beyond your nationalism, why on earth would you want to be involved in politics in the first place? If Plaid achieves independence or autonomy for Wales, where would it go after that? Would politics stop? I think not.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, Leanne's donation was to help keep the Weekly Worker going as a newspaper and as a forum for debate among the left. It wasn't a donation to the CPGB, which incidentally has nothing at all to do with the Communist Party of Wales referred to by another contributor to this thread.
People from many different groups on the left, as well as people with no affiliation at all, make financial contributions to support the Weekly Worker because they recognise its value to intelligent political discussion. There's no other paper quite like it in the UK and, unlike many other publications on the left, it regularly publishes articles critical of its sponsoring party.
Thing is, you have to have a wide umbrella of views and interests. As a campaigning party, it is fair enough to just have a nationalistic focus. But as a party of government, you have to have people who have interest in, and can deliver on, the whole scope of social and political issues. You need people who are socialist, you need people who are green, you need people who are "tough on crime", you need people who are skilled in economics. Otherwise, when you get independence and run a government, you won't have the skillsbase to cope.
ReplyDeleteAs to whether Leanne is a member of the communist party, and whether this is a conflict of interest: well, that's for her boss to decide. And her electorate. How about a statement Leanne?
This is a controversy over nothing. The anonymous posters on here are BNP posters as part of their 'cyber-activism' campaign to try and score points against all of the mainstream parties using the internet. Shame on anyone who is supporting BNP members on this thread.
ReplyDeleteQuestioning Leanne Wood's nationalism is an insult because she has done more to secure self-government for Wales (a nationalist goal) than anybody else involved in this discussion.
This is a controversy over nothing. The anonymous posters on here are BNP posters as part of their 'cyber-activism' campaign to try and score points against all of the mainstream parties using the internet. Shame on anyone who is supporting BNP members on this thread.
ReplyDeleteQuestioning Leanne Wood's nationalism is an insult because she has done more to secure self-government for Wales (a nationalist goal) than anybody else involved in this discussion.
Oh do get over yourself.
Asking why Leanne Wood has donated money to the CPGB is a legitimate question.
As for the attempted slur that anyone who questions this is somehow allied to the BNP is beneath contempt.
Illtyd Luke, your BNP comment is way over the top. It's entirely legitimate to question Leanne Wood's actions. Doing that doesn't make someone a BNP supporter. All the same, Leanne didn't actually contribute to the CPGB or its fighting fund. She gave money to support the continued publication of the Weekly Worker, a paper that makes an invaluable contribution to political debate on the left. Surely, that's not such a difficult concept for people to grasp?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I agree with the rest of your post comradec, this is a classic!
ReplyDeleteWeekly Worker, a paper that makes an invaluable contribution to political debate on the left
If you don't do it already, a career in stand-up comedy awaits.
How pathetic is the state of the left when a paper that is basically full of tittle-tattle and gossip about other leftwing groups produced by a handful of nutty Leninists makes an 'invaluable contribution to political debate on the left'?
If it was making that much of a contribution more people would read it and it wouldn't need handouts.
Well, that's a bit of nonsense, David. In case you hadn't noticed, papers that carry scandal and gossip are the ones that sell the most; serious political publications are very much a minority interest.
ReplyDeleteWeekly Worker publishes scandal and gossip about other left wing organisations. It's not that popular.
ReplyDeleteMinority interests can still pay for themselves. Weekly Worker doesn't, it isn't that popular.
Weekly Worker is about as relevant to British politics (left or any other persuasion) as Bus Spotting Weekly.
How did the Commies get into our conference?!?!?!
ReplyDelete"This was my first visit to a Plaid conference but what I heard did not surprise me much. A quick look through the agenda indicated the control freakery and appallingly low level of politics that was planned for the day: ‘Trafodaeth/debate’ had been arranged with speakers preselected and allocated a fixed time. Looking hard for policy proposals, I came across ‘Y cynnig/the motion’. Yes, one motion - and that in itself was hardly contentious, reading more like a pep talk to a thoroughly demoralised membership in the run-up to elections, now a mere seven weeks away. Indeed, the naive observer might have been fooled into believing that Plaid has solved its internal problems over the past few months - open disagreement was non-existent, open dissent was nowhere to be heard. No vote on the motion was taken anyway. Clearly, here was Plaid putting on a bureaucratic show of monolithic unity in a crude attempt to fool the electorate."
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/525/10plaid.html
Seems that Leanne Wood not only gives donations to the Commies, but also speaks at their meetings (is she a member?!?!)
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/516/wood.html
"The 'party of Wales' has certainly shifted its political rhetoric since conception 64 years ago. In 1925, Ambrose Bebb, one of Plaid Cymru's founding leaders and admirer of the French fascist movement, Action Française, placed the party well to the right. He announced that Wales needed a Mussolini and, with Saunders Lewis, a campaign was launched to establish an independent Wales managed by "small capitalists". English was to be "annihilated" and Welsh made the only language.
Nowadays, Plaid Cymru talks left. It claims to champion not only democracy, but even socialist democracy. It aims, for example, to "secure self-government for Wales and a democratic Welsh state based on socialist principles".
It is a bourgeois nationalist party in socialist clothing."
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/286/welassy.html
Why don't you get back to Russia, Leanne and stop soiling our nationalism with your pandering to totalitarianism.
We need a battle in Plaid to purge our nation of those who would seek to make Wales into a new North Korea. I don't like Communism in Cymru or in China. It disgusts me!
Well, well - this has kicked up a whole load of verbal diarrhoea - much of which is simply too hysterical, factually inaccurate and simple so politically flawed that it is simply too tedious to respond to.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Leanne Wood can speak for herself on the issue but, as a member of aformentioned, 'satan like' and sinister CPGB, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a member of one organisation donating to a particular cause of another. It's called having *principles*. In this case, the principle of fighting for open debate amongst the left on issues of importance.
Leanne Wood has also given interviews to the Weekly Worker (as well as other left and left of centre publications) so I suppose that dams her to hell too.
To be honest, and to comfort those tender souls on this list who've almost had a stroke in thinking that Leanne has crossed the Rubicon, gone over to the other side and lost her vision of Welsh 'Independence', Leanne's politics often fit well into Plaid Cymru's political outlook. Rest assured, she's not about to join the CPGB - unfortunately.
Bob Davies
as a member of aformentioned, 'satan like' and sinister CPGB, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a member of one organisation donating to a particular cause of another.
ReplyDelete'Satan like'? Nah, as I earlier stated 'handful of nutty Leninists ' is far more accurate.
As for the donation issue, there is nothing wrong for an individual to donate to whatever cause he or she wants. The problems arise when you're an elected official of a political party and you seem to be bending over backwards to help another. It's especially annoying to your party members when it turns out that the party that's being helped (and donating money to produce party propaganda is just that) is a fringe bunch of weirdos like the CPGB.
what an apolitical, sad response...
ReplyDelete"fringe bunch of weirdos like the CPGB"
judging by the level of *political* engagement embodied in this reply, it seems Leanne Wood's commitment to the principle of serious discussion is firmly cemented.
Bob Davies
How can you have a serious discussion with people who have spent decades arguing over Leftwing sectarian nonsense? Who have split more times than the Judean Peoples Front?
ReplyDeleteIf Leanne Wood needs to open doors with the far left there are far bigger, better organised fish in the pond than the CPGB. There are also far better proponents of discussion, free speech and socialism than the Weekly Worker.
If Leanne Wood, who is supposedly dedicated to Welsh independence and democracy feels comfortable providing financial support to a political group that seeks..
Communists are internationalists. Everywhere we strive for the closest unity and agreement of working class and progressive parties of all countries. We oppose every manifestation of national sectionalism. It is an internationalist duty to uphold the principle, ‘One state, one party’. To the extent that the European Union becomes a state then that necessitates EU-wide trade unions and a Communist Party of the EU.
...then she's a fool.
PS as for being apolitical...
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to fringe extremists, wether they be right or left...it's the best policy.
Perhaps you should study Plaid Cymru's own aims more carefully, David. They appear to be rather less parochial than your own narrow, nationalist outlook and include frighteningly internationalist ideas like this:
ReplyDelete"To promote the constitutional advancement of Wales with a view to attaining Full National Status for Wales within the European Union";
and
"To promote Wales's contribution to the global community."
Moreover, the introduction to the party history section on Plaid's website states that "The party’s development isn’t easily divorced from the history of Wales or from events the world over as Plaid is a party which follows the maxim, 'think globally, act locally'. The party’s unequivocal opposition to the Iraq war is one indication of our international outlook as is our record on promoting peace in the Middle East and in other areas of conflict."
Who are the CPGB? What do they do in Wales?
ReplyDeleteAhem,
ReplyDeletethere's a big difference between those 'aims' and the CPGB's 'One State, One Party' schtick.
Even if Plaid Cymru was further left than it is, that's no reason for one of it's elected officials to be donating money to a bunch of loony Leninists.
Bonus weird:
ReplyDeleteI've just had a hit on my blogs statcounter from Moscow! Are the old paymasters still keeping tabs on the CPGB?
LOL
what are the chances of Leanne being disciplined by that party? Ieaun Wyn Jones is a good sensible left-of-centre politician, but he lacks the backbone of a Kinnock to crack down hard on those who are giving nationalism a bad name by their flirtation with the gospel of mass murderers like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
ReplyDeletePS. David your Moscow anecdote is quite revealing . . .
ReplyDeleteI have always questioned the commitment of people like Leanne Wood to the cause of nationalism, maybe they are being funded by outside agitatiors?
As Alwyn says, people like Leanne who are giving Plaid a bad name by associating with anti-democratic extremists need to be told to choose - either, Welsh nationalism or British communism!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAre you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of.... blah, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteAAH: "I was shocked to discover that this support for socialism is so extreme that a leading light of Plaid's left wing would go as far as giving financial backing to The Communist Party of Great Britain."
Then you are easilly shocked, Alwyn. Sad to see the Welsh blogosphere's first little neo-Macarthyite red scare unfolding here. A wholly unedifying spectacle.
Granted, your blog post is not as openly hyperbolic and choleric as the rubbish spewed out by the some of the shite-stirring trolls in the following comments, but it reads like it was clearly engineered to provoke such reactions.
For shame.
little neo-Macarthyite red scare
ReplyDeleteI love the way leftists always accuse people of being on Macarthyite witchunts when others express dislike or disgust for communisim and its apologists.
"what are the chances of Leanne being disciplined by that party? Ieaun Wyn Jones is a good sensible left-of-centre politician, but he lacks the backbone of a Kinnock to crack down hard on those who are giving nationalism a bad name by their flirtation with the gospel of mass murderers like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot."
ReplyDeleteThis is ridiculous. The CPGB are Trots, they like the guy Stalin had killed. The Soviet dissident Boris Kagarlitsky (imprisoned under what wasn't really 'communism' at all in Soviet Russia) has been on one of their platforms and sometimes writes for the Weekly Worker.
Luther, Plaid is (or should be) a mainstream political party, we should steer clear of all extremists whether of the lfar eft or the far right, both of whom are against democracy and support violence. I personally am fed up of our national struggle being mixed up with the trendy PC brigade. It comes as no surprise that people like Leanne feel more affinity with English communists than her own countrymen. We are not into 'class war' but stand for one nation where all Welsh people can live together without disorder and chaos being stirred up by extremist troublemakers. I'm proud that Plaid has members who are businessmen and millionaires, such people are central to our fledgeling nation.
ReplyDeleteAnon - you're extrapolating a lot from a poxy 25 squid chucked to an obscure far-left gossip rag, there, aren't you?
ReplyDeleteAnd the suggestion that Plaid members shouldn't be consorting with such 'extremists' is somewhat strange. A lot of the Plaid left have been involved in various social and environmental justice movements (the anti-war movement, the environmental movement, and the anti-racist movement) for a long time, now. It'd be unusual to be part of these entirely legitimate and laudable campaigns without rubbing shoulders with, debating with, and occassionally buyng the publications of (yes, or even contributing to) some of the minor sectlets which populate the far left.
And like it or not, your party has gained a lot of votes and kudos for it's younger AMs' rhetoric around social and environmental justice in recent years. Now you go ahead and boot the likes of Leanne and Bethan out the door. I'm sure you'd get immense satisfaction from it. But any pleasure derived from the sound of their arses hitting the Sennedd steps, and your own deluded hyperbolic condemnation of nasty commies bent on violence and destruction would be shortlived. And this noise would soon be drowned out by the footfall of dissaffected voters following them away from your party. Personally I couldn't give a flying. But then I'm just an 'extremist troublemaker'.
Nobody's pointed out, either, that small donations like this are how such magazines manage to survive, given the low circulation figures ;).
And the suggestion from some that the CPGB migh pose a credible opposition to Plaid, and therefore this represents a conflict of interest is just silly. They haven't stood in elections for decades as far as I know. There's only about 20 of them UK-wide, and their main political activity is sitting far-left meetings and taking notes on the bickering and in-fighting for articles in the Weekly Worker. I don't think the Plaid strategists wil be quaking in their boots.
David says: "Minority interests can still pay for themselves. Weekly Worker doesn't, it isn't that popular."
ReplyDeleteThe WW is funded by its readers - some who buy it from vendors (less common these days due to the website being the main way it's read now), some who pay a subscription, some have regular standing orders, some make occasional donations.
That *is* which is paying for itself. You can't get a more tranparent business model than that.
If didn't have a substantial readership, some of whom contribute financially, it wouldn't exist.
your own deluded hyperbolic condemnation of nasty commies bent on violence and destruction
ReplyDeleteDeluded hyperbole? How exactly do you achieve a one party state then, ask nicely?
The WW is funded by its readers - some who buy it from vendors (less common these days due to the website being the main way it's read now), some who pay a subscription, some have regular standing orders, some make occasional donations.
That *is* which is paying for itself. You can't get a more tranparent business model than that.
No, if you're asking for donations to a fighting fund to keep the rag afloat it isn't paying for itself. The only way it would pay for itself is if the circulation and whatever advertising revenue paid for the production. It quite obviously doesn't.
David, the CPGB doesn't advocate a one-party state. You appear to have misinterpreted the following paragraph in the CPGB's 'What we fight for' statement:
ReplyDelete"Communists are internationalists. Everywhere we strive for the closest unity and agreement of working class and progressive parties of all countries. We oppose every manifestation of national sectionalism. It is an internationalist duty to uphold the principle, ‘One state, one party’. To the extent that the European Union becomes a state then that necessitates EU-wide trade unions and a Communist Party of the EU."
That doesn't mean that only a single party should be allowed to exist and/or that other political parties should be banned. Rather it means that communists and socialists ought to organise themselves in a party on the basis of, and in opposition to, the nation-state in which they live, i.e. establish a communist party of the UK, a communist party of France, of Germany, of Belgium, etc. We're only talking about how communists should organise themselves there; we're not saying that that political party should enjoy a monopoly on power.
The same statement also says that "Communists fight for extreme democracy in all spheres of society. Democracy must be given a social content" and "Socialism represents victory in the battle for democracy. It is the rule of the working class. Socialism is either democratic or, as with Stalin’s Soviet Union, it turns into its opposite."
Hahaha...you Trots are priceless.
ReplyDeletewe're not saying that that political party should enjoy a monopoly on power
...then...
Socialism represents victory in the battle for democracy. It is the rule of the working class.
So you can have multiple parties as long as we're in charge...
Democracy? Don't make me laugh?
What's your point, David? It's not contradictory to argue for ideas and then expect to implement them if you persuade people to support them through a democratic process.
ReplyDelete