Unfortunately the lad let himself down with this anti Welsh post. O'Neill seems to think that this quote is proof of the dark side of devolution to Wales:
Yet, to others, post-devolution Wales and Scotland seem less friendly places. My own father can trace his Welsh heritage farther than many a nationalist. Since devolution (which he devoutly opposed) he has commented that for the first time in his life he feels unwelcome in Wales. He has even contemplated moving over the border. It seems ludicrous to me that people with so much in common, so much shared history and culture, should be in such a position.
Despite the fact that I can trace my family back to Gomer I find the statement My own father can trace his Welsh heritage farther than many a nationalist quite offensive. I love family history, but I don't believe that my antecedents give any authority to my political opinion! My opinion is my opinion, and I don't give a bugger whether my own dad agrees with me or not, never mind what my ancestors with a Welsh heritage farther than many a nationalist may or may not have opined.
No example of why Scotland or Wales are more unfriendly now than they were before devolution is given to support the dark argument. Probably because no real examples exist.
I was an unfriendly old git before devolution, I am an unfriendly old git now, and I will still be an unfriendly old git when Wales becomes independent. The friendly element of Welsh society will remain as welcoming as ever, whatever the constitutional arrangement.
The truth is that all nations contain nice people and all nations contain nasty people, constitutional changes don't make the nasty nice or the nice nasty. So as a defence of the Union O'Neill's post on this occasion is A Load of Unionist Shite
Unfortunately the lad let himself down with this anti Welsh post.
ReplyDeleteA criticism of the results of devolution which employs a quote from a er...real life Welsh person is anti-Welsh?
O'Neill seems to think that this quote is proof of the dark side of devolution to Wales
It’s a quote of one Welsh person’s attitude to Welsh society post-devolution. I presume we are still allowed, post-devolution, to have the temerity to stand against the cosy political consensus? Now, if you really wanted to disprove the point you would have produced some stats/reports from one of the race-relation organizations relating to incidents of reported anti-English bigotry in Wales pre and post devolution. If you do that, I’ll add it as a postnote to my original blog.
I find the statement My own father can trace his Welsh heritage farther than many a nationalist quite offensive.
I guess the language employed is tied in with the nationalist narrative that feeling a pride in your Britishness somehow makes you less of a Welshmen. But I’m only guessing; in your opinion can someone be a *real* Welshman and simultaneously also be immensely proud of their Britishness?
The truth is that all nations contain nice people and all nations contain nasty people, constitutional changes don't make the nasty nice or the nice nasty.
It can give the nasty more room to express their nastiness, a look at the rise of and *constitutional* changes made to accommodate Nazism and “communism” in the 20th century surely proves that? And no, I’m not equating devolution with either philosophies.
So as a defence of the Union O'Neill's post on this occasion is A Load of Unionist Shite
Oh dear, I’m sorry, I’ve made you even more miserable;)
As a Unionist blog, I’m not sure that a happy, contented audience of nationalist readers is necessarily my main target- I do however aim to provide an alternative view to that provided by the overwhelming majority of blogs on this subject and a bit of variety is the spice of life as I'm frequently told by Ms O'Neill in a slightly different context;)
Alwyn, the crux of the debate, and one which you a just as tied to as O’Neil, is that rests on mentions to wooly, cultural views that are not empirical. What exactly is the belief that you are ‘proud’ of a land mass? How you are proud of Chepstow, but not five miles over a border some ruling elite divvied up hundreds of years ago?
ReplyDeleteThat is my great frustration with the nationalist argument, it is based on some romantic need to continue with this reference to some vapid cultural entity, passing down judgements on other Welsh people for not worshipping such a ‘lofty’ ideal.
Owain Glyndwr was a mercenary for the English before he became such a ‘hero’, so even the wonky cultural ideal is based on bullshit.
People form their identity organically, having it predefined by myths and ‘dungeons and dragons’ style ‘Welshness’ is frankly exactly the reason that cultural nationalism is so abhorrent to most of the people of Wales. The managerial, political, nationalism will probably win out, merely as a result of the Welsh political class feathering their nests further, but both you and O’Neill indulge in the same cultural observations that cannot be measured or approval.
How do you apply to become a member of this managerial nationalist class? I'd love to feather my nest. As it happens about 14% of National Assembly staff claim to be bilingual and the higher up the grade structure you go, the less Welsh speakers you find. I've got very little interest in Owain Glyndwr or how many generations someone can trace back their ancestry. I just want to see Wales run properly and for Welsh people (of all shapes, sizes and linguistic preferences) to get a fair deal. The Union is too London centric, too undemocratic, too blind to its own historical failings and I want out.
ReplyDeleteSweet and tender hooligan,
ReplyDeleteYou will find that Glyndwr's Wales was already governed by the English. Wales was not independent. If it was and then Glyndwr had fought for the English then you'd have a point but it wasn't so you don't. He was later on enlightened to the fact that throwing his lot in with England didn't make any sense at all. The man's a legend. Get over it.
"How you are proud of Chepstow, but not five miles over a border some ruling elite divvied up hundreds of years ago?"
Ideally, I wouldn't want to stop at Chepstow, but one has to be pragmatic.
The truth is that all nations contain nice people and all nations contain nasty people, constitutional changes don't make the nasty nice or the nice nasty.
ReplyDeleteVery true!
How you are proud of Chepstow, but not five miles over a border some ruling elite divvied up hundreds of years ago?
ReplyDeleteWho says I am not proud of 5 miles over the border? I lived in Peterstow (Herefordshire) for a number of years - fantastic place. A village worth being proud of!
I have never been to Chepstow though, so I wouldn't know if it is worthy of pride or not.
Don't judge others by your own prejudices!
It is a sad fact that many nationalists still believe that if you can't speak Welsh, you are not Welsh. That I do find unfriendly and insulting, as a proud Welsh man myself, who cannot speak "national" language of Wales.
ReplyDelete