For Wales see Scotland

Not satisfied with his role in telling us Welsh nationalist where we are going wrong, I see that Welsh Labour blogger and Golwg columnist Normal Mouth, has decided to take on the might of the SNP too.

NM is currently enjoying a long thread debate on a post by soon to be SNP MP for the Gordon constituency, Richard Thompson's blog, on why Labour is right and the SNP is wrong re the wording of the forthcoming independence referendum.

Rhodri Morgan use to base his past success in Wales on the clear red water that was between Traditional Welsh Labour and New Labour in Westminster. I would have thought that Welsh Labour would wish to create a Clear Red Ocean between itself and the shambles that is the Labour Party in Scotland. But if Normal wants to associate the Welsh Labour party with Wendy Alexander's troubled patch, I shan't complain.

On the subject of Scottish bloggers and columnists in Welsh language magazines, I was plesantly suprised to see that Will Patterson aka J Arthur MacNumpty now has a column in the Welsh language monthly current affairs mag Barn.

I do hope that Will follows Normal's example by publishing the English "original" on blog after the mags official publication date.


  1. Alwyn

    I know you have a self-styled reputation of miserable to live up to. "Mendacious" doesn't appear in the job description, however. If you bothered to read the thread, which is a very civil and interesting discussion rather than an argument, you would see that part of it centres around the suggestion that there is no Labour wording.

    How, then, can I be discussing "how Labour is right"?

    Instead, we're having a 3-4 way discussion (though I note you haven't joined in - presumably writing this garbage takes up your time) on what words matter - and how.

    Richard T is one of the most thoughtful and intelligent nationalist bloggers around. We're actually having a proper debate. Try it some time, instead of indulging in the personal attacks you complained so loudly to me about once.

    Perhaps "hypocritical" should also be added to the tag?

  2. so Normal Mouth has had to go into the Scottish blogsphere for 'debate' because most welsh bloggers ignore him because everyone had realised that he's a Transport House Spinner.

    No point arguing with people like him because he like his bosses always have to be right and always need the last word, what's funny is that Labour in Scotland are in such a bad way they are having to resort to a welsh labour sock puppet to argue the case for the Union on their behalf.

    Keep up the good work Alwyn this put a smile on my face.

  3. Oh dear Normal, you are a bit grumpy today.

    I don't use the word argument in my post at all, or suggest that the discussion on Richard's blog is anything but civil.

    The suggestion that a referendum on independence might be acceptable if the wording preferred by the SNP is amended came from the Labour party. By offering alternatives to the SNP wording you are saying that "Labour is right".

    There is no personal attack in my post, all it does is draw attention to your discussion with Richard. The only "negative" in the post is a fairly light swipe at the state of the Labour party in Scotland.

  4. By offering alternatives to the SNP wording you are saying that "Labour is right".

    Iain Gray MSP proposed a completely different question (on substance, not negotiations). I was discussing how amendments to the SNP's proposed wording (on negotiations, not substance) might make it more readily understood by the voters. So no, I wasn't endorsing Labour's approach at all.

    all it does is draw attention to your discussion with Richard.

    Rubbish. It says that I want "to associate the Welsh Labour party with Wendy Alexander's troubled patch". Little wonder you have ended up feeding the troll above.

    I've blogged about events in Scotland several times on my own site several times recently. It's good to be able to discuss them directly with people who know more about it than me. I hope Richard does go on to become an MP - I think he'll make a very fine one.

    You clearly see yourself as the Welsh blogosphere's Scottish politics expert (perhaps that explains your little fit of pique about my contribution). Why not join the discussion, instead of making these ungenerous snipes?

  5. Normal, when you post such rubbish as your last comment you are in no position to accuse others as trolling.

    There is only one person having a "fit of pique" here and that is you, because you seem to think that my saying that you support the Labour Party is some sort of personal slur on your integrity.

    Where have I said that I am an expert on Scottish politics, or suggested that you have no right to comment on Scottish issues?

  6. Where have I...suggested that you have no right to comment on Scottish issues?

    Oh, you have said anything as blunt as that. Instead you jut made a bunch of snide remarks implying ulterior motives and misrepresenting my position.

    If you say this was not your intent then we can let it rest.

    P.s you haven't answered my question: why not join the thread instead of commenting on it?

  7. Normal Mouth is an opinionated boring blogger,who bothers to read his diatribes. Why Golwg give him space defeats me. He is a labour sock puppet.He cannot debate he gets personal

  8. Labour is basically imploding....and what does the faithfull NuLabour Mouth decide to do....try to high-lighe (in his one-eyed view) the shortcomings of Plaid and now the SNP. Look behind these attacks and you'll see a very frustrated person.


    Whos is NM? Is his identity publicly known? Or maybe it's a she? Just wandering.

  9. If you say this was not your intent then we can let it rest.

    I suppose that this is the best that one can expect - the nearest thing to an apology for accusing me of:

    1. Being Mendacious
    2. Claiming that an unsavoury argument was happening on Richard's post, when I referred to a debate.
    3. Insulting you by saying that you support a Labour view
    4. Rubbishing you by pointing out that you are a member of the same party as the pitiful Wendy Alexander
    5. Calling me a hypocrite
    6. Accusing me of being the Welsh blogosphere's Scottish politics expert, when I have made no such claim
    7. Accusing me of having ulterior motives
    8. Accusing me of making snide remarks.

    A simple "Sorry" would have been been more efficient!

    P.s you haven't answered my question: why not join the thread instead of commenting on it?

    Because I like you and I don't want to add to the roasting!

  10. Alwyn

    This is beyond tedious. I have demonstrated beyond any doubt that it was false to say I was arguing that "Labour is right" on RT's thread. If you cannot see why your original posting would give offence (being a clear implication that I was merely towing a party line rather than thinking for myself) and are not prepared to retract then we have nothing useful further to discuss.

    Your "roasting" reference demonstrates that, at its guts, you just don't get what the conversation was about. Like the troll you see this whole thing as some party political point-scoring exercise, not the "pub argument" analogy you like to put forward. Like the troll, your are basically intolerant of viewpoints other than your own and have to resort to playing the man instead of the ball. It's sad.

  11. freda speech02/06/2008, 23:21

    Who the F*** does Normal think he is.Unable to win any arguement or have a discusion of any merit, he mouths off,gets personal and talks twadle.I think he owes yiu a megaapology MOF