My post last Wednesday, in which I quoted an anti Welsh socialist rant, seems to have touched some raw nerves. Bethan Jenkins AM seems to have been particularly peeved by it, so peeved that she has posted an intemperate response on her own blog. Ms Jenkins asks in her post Is there anything more miserable than a Miserable Old Fart?
Unfortunately it appears that the answer is YES. The thing that is more miserable than a Miserable Old fart is a Militant Young Socialist.
Ms Jenkins tells me that she supports socialism because she is not in the business of advocating Independence without taking in to regard the type of Independent Wales [she] would like to see. Fine, but at least have the courtesy to accept that I oppose socialism for exactly the same reason. I want Wales to be independent but I don't want it to be a statist country, where social class is divided against social class in a way that has always been alien to the Welsh communities in which I have lived
I don’t want an independent Wales to be based on an economic system characterized by state ownership of the means of production and distribution. I don't want an independent Wales where people are despised for being entrepreneurs, or punished for being economically successful. I want to live in an independent country in which the citizens of that country are also independent and not dependent on the state.
The main criticism of my post seem to be that it was somehow wrong to link Plaid's socialist tendency with the views of a member of the incongruously named Respect Party. They may both be socialist parties but it's unacceptable to tar all socialists with the same brush. However, as it is the socialists themselves who choose to use the same label to describe their political philosophy, there must be some basic principals that they share. Some of the comments from Respect seem to be fairly typical socialist principals, the sort of arguments that one has been use to hearing from socialists of all hues for many years:
No nations! No borders!
Internationalism and solidarity!Somebody Welsh on the minimum wage has more in common with an English or Polish worker than a Welsh millionaire!
If Ms Jenkins and her ilk, don't believe that class solidarity overrides national solidarity, why do they insist on using the socialist tag?
Whenever I criticise Plaid's socialist tendency I can guarantee that somebody will say that I shouldn't do so, because they are fellow nationalists and my criticism should be aimed at unionists. Ignoring the fact that most posts on this blog have promoted independence and opposed unionism. I am also told that there is no need to criticise Plaid because Plaid is a broad church (or as Adam Price would prefer, a broad inter faith community). This is a myth. Plaid's aims, as noted on its membership card, are based on decentralist socialism. Because I believe that socialism is an evil doctrine, because I believe that an independent Wales would be best served by a vibrant capitalist economy I am excluded from the party by its aims, and my economic and political philosophy is condemned by the party's aims. The idea that I should embrace a party or refrain from criticising a party that excludes me and condemns my views by virtue of its stated aims is laughable.
The only thing that separates me from David Jones MP, Nick Bourne AM and especially Glyn Davies is that I believe that Wales should be independent and they (for reasons that are beyond my understanding) do not. I disagree with Plaid's socialist tendency on a range of economic and social attitudes, so is it any wonder that I criticise Plaid more often than I criticise the Tories?
The saddest thing about the demise of Plaid's core values over the past few decades is that I can't even agree with Plaid on the independence issue any more. Plaid has done bugger all to promote independence in the last 20 years because the party is too hung up on the evolution of devolution to care about making a positive case for independence.
New Labour, Labour and Plaid, the only time anyone has been a socialist government was in 1948 for the formation of the NHS and the welfare state, after this I do not see many so called socialist around, plaid socialism is about trying to get the votes of the working class, sadly in Wales working class tends to be those working in a shop .
ReplyDeleteSocialism fails everywhere. It is the creed of the morally conceited, the control freak, the back-seat meddler.
ReplyDeletePoor old Wales to be wedded to this outdated religious sect, because that's what socialism a la Bethan is.
No wonder that parts of Wales are now poorer than some of the Eastern bloc countries that have thrown off the shackles of socialist misery.
And that's the real tragedy, socialism destroys working people's lives and aspitrations and we see the results around us every day.
Socialism a religion, of course it is. Look at some of the socialist saints that Bethan and Leanne and all the other socialists worship.
ReplyDeleteThe International Brigade, yeh they go all misty eyed over the 150 or so Welsh Stalinists drafted to Spain by the CPGB. Even the pacifists genuflect before these gun totting heroes. They should read Rob Stradling's book about Wales and Spain. About those Welshmen who fell foul of their comrades and were shot, about those who were lucky to return with their cards marked Trotskyite, a potential death-sentence in the bitter theological disputes that infect the religious left.
Then there's Paul Robeson, yes he's a holy saint for those Plaid women. A decent human being but who betrayed his friend Itzhak Feffer - that's what faith in an evil creed does to you.
Lastly today no-doubt many a socialist will be sighing at the departure of that blood-soaked old tyrant Fidel Castro ... yet another socialist saint.
Rising towards the baited hook,
ReplyDeleteThe socialist fish give a tired look.
Tattered, soured old bait, a faceless angler on the shore,
Who fancies sport with blood long past.
In the blood-soaked tussle, twixt left and right, it begs a sober thought.
Who built the bombs that tore apart the peace at Guernica?
Whose nightmare hand took Hiroshima`s dreams?
What senseless ghouls planned those trenches deep at Flanders?
I am the Prince of Whales.....errrrrrrrrrr is that the Duke of Dolphins? The Sultan of Squid?
ReplyDeleteStay on groovin' (over there) safari,
Tor
Oh, BTW
ReplyDeleteCapitalism = Terrorism
Communism = Impossible
Showism = There's no ism like show ism
Stay on groovin' safari,
Tor
well tommy atkins
ReplyDeleteIts not blood long past since the Plaid left are still on their knees before these icons.
Reading all the comments on this item, I think Tor has come up with the most convincing case.
ReplyDeleteIf you really want to go straight for independence, ignoring the small issue of not taking the rest of Wales with you then there is a way. Invade the outer island off Mumbles head and declare UDI. You can fly your flag from the lighthouse and be as Capitalist as you like-in your own very little world.
I'm so glad that you do not feel comfortable within Plaid.
well capitalistic as you like in the great wide world .... it's difficult to think of anywhere that's socialist today except for North Korea and Cuba.
ReplyDeleteSocialism created the NHS. Does anyone agree with the current Rebublican candidates in the US that this is a wastful model? Do you want to turn it into an insurance model to make sure that the better off get a better deal?
ReplyDeleteNo political model is perfect but please don't pretend that capitalism has all the answers. Tell that to the millions of US citizens who live with appalling poverty, no health insurance and a dreadfully low life expectancy.
It really is time for that Dwynwen's or Valentine's card ! Perhaps it got lost in the post.
ReplyDeleteBethan's reaction is a bit ott- after all we are only blogging.
Socialism created the NHS.
ReplyDeleteNo it didn't! Atlee's government may have been the nearest that the UK has ever had to a Social Democrat government, but it was not a Socialist government.
Within three years of establishing the NHS a Conservative government was elected on a tide of opposition to the march to the left in British politics. An anti left government, that, nevertheless chose not to abolish the NHS. If the NHS was "socialist" then Churchill would have killed it off in 1951.
The fact is that through most of its existence the NHS has been stewarded and nurtured by Conservative governments (30 out of 50 years) and that 9 of the 20 years of Labour stewardship of the NHS has been by the right wing "New Labour"