If this question was asked in an opinion poll I would suspect that the vast majority of the people of Wales would say, without a doubt, that Wales is a nation.
Even people like David Jones MP, who thinks that supporting Welsh independence is ludicrous and disloyal; or people like Kim Howells MP, who thinks that supporting Welsh independence is both difficult and dangerous , would agree that Wales IS a nation.
If we all agree that Wales is a nation, why should Wales not have the same rights and responsibilities as other nations? If we all agree that Wales is a nation why is Wales not allowed to be one of the United Nations, for example?
If Luxembourg is a nation that can have full membership rights and responsibilities in the EU, why can't Wales, if it is a nation, have the same status?
A number of comments to my previous posts have suggested that arguments for independence are defunct, because the Welsh majority is against independence. There is some value to this argument, but the only reason that the majority is opposed to independence is because nobody makes the independence case any more.
If the case for independence was made then that case would be indefatigable, because the Welsh majority believe that Wales is a nation, equal to all others.
The sad situation is, that in Wales, the argument for independence is no longer made because those who should make that argument have sold out to the unionist policy of devolution. A policy that makes Wales a poor region, rather than a proud nation!
MOF continues the debate also to be found on my own blog that Wales is a nation, whether or not the peoople in denial say yea or nay. It is said that if something is repeated again and again people will believe it.
ReplyDeleteTherefore there are many who believe Wales is a region, and Britain is a nation. This is patently untrue. As Alwyn argues here, if Wales is a nation why is it not recognised as such?
These matters are central to the case for Wales, and we need to open up the debate. More on my blog:
http://alanindyfed.blogspot.com
the only reason that the majority is opposed to independence is because nobody makes the independence case any more.
ReplyDeleteYour causal link is running in the wrong direction; people don't make the case because most people are against it.
A nation controls the flow and distribution of its own wealth.
ReplyDeleteWhen Wales recovers the autonomy needed to do this, then Wales will be respected as an Independent nation, no?
Transnational economic interests, of course respect few borders, and only acknowledge those which suit it's mercantilist motives.
Promoting 'Brand Wales' is as much a part of the battle for public support as is the argument for localized controlling tax revenue.
If you don't first capture the imagination of the many, then you wage a losing war of words.
Wales is a country (a geographical area), it is the Welsh people who are a nation.
ReplyDeleteOf course Dafydd is right about that distinction between the Welsh people and Wales but he's also wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe 16th Century Crown bureaucrats who drew up that border between our two countries left many welsh-speaking districts on the wrong side of the line. Today knowledge of their Welsh identity has mostly disappeared .... territory does matter.
My big fear is that Plaid will get its referendum and we will lose. Then what?
People are fed-up with politicians who ignore their everyday problems perhaps there will be a second vote and that will be the end of the talking shop assembly.
What then? Gazing into the crystal ball maybe Gwynedd could go it alone as an independent state. I'm sure it would be a great success ... the rest of us could maybe join in later.
Hope I'm wrong but after 1979 and the narrow squeak last time .....
Normal Mouth Said:
ReplyDeleteYour causal link is running in the wrong direction; people don't make the case because most people are against it.
Although most are against independence at the moment there is still a sizable minority who are in favour of independence.
Opinion polls, for what they are worth, have never put the percentage of those supporting independence under 14% in the last 20 years. So what intrigues me is why this 14% hasn't been extolling the virtues of independence in a loud voice.
You are probably correct in saying that it is because they know that the majority is against. This is why people like IWJ and Wigley avoid the I word like the plague, because they fear that if people believed that Plaid was in favour of independence they wouldn't vote for the party. This attitude appears to me to be a bit silly, because everybody in Wales knows that Plaid is in favour of independence anyway and pretending other wise is at best daft and at worst two faced duplicity.
More importantly for those who believe in independence not to make the argument for independence is silly because once we accept that Wales is a nation then there is no logical or fair reason for Wales to have fewer rights and responsibilities than any other nation. To demand those rights and responsibilities would be a vote winner rather than a vote looser.
ello said My big fear is that Plaid will get its referendum and we will lose. Then what?
ReplyDeletethis is why we do not need a referendum. If we can surrender power to the EU then Westminster can also do this for wales without a referendum.
Wales should be re-named Wails, for that is all it does and ever has done.
ReplyDeleteBobby Wightman-Cervantes
Israel