13/04/2007

The English Democrat Invasion

Thanks to Sanddef for reminding me of the English Democrats decision to take part in the National Assembly of Wales elections. A silly decision perhaps, but if one considers the precedence of Ireland a potentially dangerous move.

The Mynmyth is English idea is an old bone of contention which lacks any historic support. If one looks at the Parish Registers far to the east of present day Monmouthshire it is clear that not only Monmouthshire, but much of Herefordshire was part of Welsh speaking Wales up to the 1700's

The English Democrats excuse for standing in Wales is:
The Nationality of Monmouthshire has been a matter of debate since 1284.
In 1960’s the then Labour and Conservative governments conspired to put Monmouthshire into Wales, partly to dilute the growing Welsh Nationalism in Wales generally.

Bollocks! Before the Acts of Union of 1536 Monmouthshire did not have the right to send MPs to Westminster, because it wasn't considered to be a part of England. After 1536 it is true to say that Monmouthshire was annexed into England, but so were Caernarfonshire, Merioneth and Carmarthenshire. However every law relating to Wales alone since 1536, the first of which was the order to translate the Bible into Welsh, has included Monmouthshire as part of Wales.

The real reason why ED is standing in Wales is in order to spite Plaid Cymru for a snub. In 2004, Elfyn Llwyd, the Parliamentary leader of Plaid Cymru, was invited to address the ED conference and to discus a joint ED / PC / SNP campaign for the 2005 election. Elfyn refused the offer because of ED's attitude to Europe. Plaid and the SNP are both favourable to the EU; the English Democrats are opposed to the institution.

My personal opinion is that Elfyn made a mistake in refusing the invitation. A strong English nationalist party would be advantageous to the cause of Welsh, Scottish and Cornish nationalism. English nationalist's attitudes towards Europe are a matter for English nationalists to decide - that is what independence is all about - the rights of free nations to follow their own course.

The ED's decision to spite Plaid by standing in Wales is an even bigger mistake. It has added an unnecessary enmity between Welsh and English Nationalists and it is a huge waste of resources.

As a Welsh Nationalist of part English descent I want the English Democrats to have electoral success in England. The ED is likely to lose up to £11k in lost deposits from their pathetic stunt of standing in Monmouthshire. That £11k and the time and effort of their Welsh candidates could have been used to get a foot in the door by securing the election of a couple of councillors in the English Local Government elections being held on the same day as the Assembly elections; a much more positive way of using party funds and of supporting the cause than wasting resources on creating un-needed animosity between Welsh and English nationalists.

Cymraeg:Hen Rech Flin: Democratiaid Lloegr ym Mynwy

8 comments:

  1. my sources inform me that the ED's canvassed New Tredegar last night, going round the local pubs arguing that the good people of New tredegar weren't Welsh. They got chased out of town by all accounts!

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  2. Look:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/articles/2006/11/13/hereford_in_wales_feature.shtml

    Plaid should campaign there in retaliation!

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  3. Well done the people of New Tredegar, Ted!

    When I lived in Herefordshire in the early 1980's there use to be a Hereford City branch of Plaid - I wonder if it's still going.

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  4. The English Democrats aren't standing because we think Monmouthshire should be English. We are campaigning for a referendum to ask the people of Monmouthshire if they want to be part of Wales or England. We were asked by an Englishman who was born, raised and still lives in Monmouthshire, because as a party we campaign for increased democracy. If the majority of Monmouthshire support the present political boundaries, then that is fine by us, the people will have spoken.
    As for acting out of spite against Plaid Cymru, that is not the case. We will not dilute Plaid's vote at all. We will, however, affect the vote for the other unionist parties, which has to be a good thing, surely? And if we get the BBC to question why an English nationalist party is standing for the Welsh Assembly, we can start to get a debate going in that bastion of unionism itself. Remember, you're well on your way to a Welsh Parliament, whilst we have got a long way to go. We'd be more than happy to see Plaid standing in an English Parliamentary election, just as soon as we get an English Parliament.

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  5. Fred Forsythe (Not The)17/04/2007, 17:14

    Y SWYDDFA QYMREiG
    TY GWYQIR LLUNDA1N SW1A 2E
    ir,: 017! -270 30CC .S-vitswrck!) 01 71 -270 (Uir.esi Union \
    ;acs:Ol7l-270C55S y ;s- v'jC"/.'«?'~.'jvC2' S-
    G 1110/97 '

    WIN GRIFFITHS MP
    WELSH OFFICE
    GWYOYfi HOUSE
    WHITEHALL LONDON

    August 1997
    Paul Murphy Esq MP House of Commons LONDON SW1A OAA
    Dear Paul
    Thank you for your letter of 8 August enclosing further correspondence from your constituent Mr W E Jones.
    The Local Government Act 1972 abolished the administrative county of Monmouthshire and the county borough of Newport, which until then were legally part of England. The definition of Wales in that Act was fully debated prior to the legislation receiving royal assent in 1972 and consequently Monmouthshire became part of Wales on 1 April 1974. I believe this presented ample opportunity for Members of Parliament to put forward any representations that had been made to them by their constituents on any of the proposed boundary changes. This ongoing process of elected members representing their constituents views is the cornerstone of our Parliamentary process and presents a more than adequate opportunity for democratic debate.
    The Government has no plans to hold a referendum in the County of Monmouthshire on whether it should become part of England.
    Yours sincerely
    (It is signed by Win Griffiths)

    This is from your Welsh Office and is beyond dispute.
    Prior to 1974 Monmouthshire was English. They colluded to steal not only 400 sq Miles of England but also to commit political ethnicide on a major scale, 400,000 English people. This is not a Welsh question it is an English one and any referendum should include England.

    Her's another reference that is of modern times and not subject to shrouding in the bullshit of the brainwashed.

    Ordnance Survey
    T':J^ •';:«»-??-.
    Romsey Road, SOUTHAMPTON, SO94DH.
    Tel: Dial direct or Switchboard 0703 792000 Fax: 0703 792404 Minicom: 0703 792045

    28 October 1994

    I have the information you requested concerning the depiction of Monmouthshire on Ordnance Survey maps.
    Ordnance Survey reflects changes to definite detail in the landscape such as buildings, roads and fences and these changes are incorporated into the maps at the earliest practical opportunity. Boundaries do not exist as definite detail, for instance they cannot be seen on the ground as a feature but they are linked to definite detail. This process is known as mereing. Change to the course of a boundary can only be made as a result of an Act of Parliament.
    Ordnance Survey only changes boundaries on its maps as a result of an Act of Parliament, and the boundaries affected in this way are local government boundaries and parliamentary boundaries.
    Prior to the Local Government Act of 1972, which was operative April 1974, Monmouthshire was shown in England, Since that date, however, it has been shown as Gwent in Wales.
    This confirms your understanding of the situation as stated in your letter dated 1 1 October.
    I have not written to the South Wales Argus, but if you want to inform them of the official reason for the 'movement' of Monmouthshire from England to Wales please feel free to use this letter.
    •- . i&..:.r.^±&''*j£££t ,,; ..„,.,,. ... . .;, „„.._ ., .. .
    Yours sincerely
    PhilAldridge
    Press Office
    Awarded for excellence in delivering public services

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  6. Nice try Fred, unfortunately both of your letters make the same factual mistake, the 1972 Local Government Act did not transfer Monmouth to Wales, it confirmed Monmouth as a part of Wales. The acts that were replaced in 1972 were the Local Government Acts of 1888 and 1894. The 1888 and 1894 Acts did not define any political border between England and Wales because no such border existed. Under the terms of the Acts of Union as confirmed by the Wales and Berwick Act 1756 Monmouth was considered to be a part of England, but so was Anglesey.

    The Wales and Berwick Act was repealed in 1967 as part of the Welsh Language Act. The Welsh Language Act included Monmouth. (I suspect that this is the basis for the ED claim that "In 1960’s the then Labour and Conservative governments conspired to put Monmouthshire into Wales, partly to dilute the growing Welsh Nationalism in Wales generally"; as the Act was passed as a response to the election of Gwynfor Evans in 1966). However this act not only made Monmouth a part of Wales it also made the other 12 counties part of Wales.

    Despite the fact that Wales was considered to be part of England until the 1967 Welsh language Act a number of Wales only laws had been passed prior to this such as laws to enumerate the number of Welsh speakers in Wales under the 1891 census, the Welsh Cemeteries Act of 1908 The Welsh Church Act etc these included Monmouthshire.

    From its formation The Welsh Office (as Win Griffith should have known) was responsible for Monmouth.

    Nobody doubts that there has been some ambiguity about the status of Monmouth, but this is only an exacerbation of the ambiguity about Wales' continuing existence. The arguments made by the ED for standing in Monmouth could be applied with as much validity to them standing in Caernarfonshire.

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  7. Hi,
    I'm not a member of the EDP but I am an English Nationalist and wish PC good luck in the comming May election. I do believe the EDP campaign in Monmouthshire is not the best of approaches, if it where going to go ahead it would have been better done along side PC as a stunt to raise the profile of Welsh and English nationalism.
    Anyway good luck once again in May and let's give Labour a much needed kicking at the polls!

    Scaedugengan

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  8. I am a little confused to this ,prior 1972, or what ever. Can the English Democrats explain to me why a people living on the Welsh English Borders of Tintern Monmouthshire and Brockweir Gloucestershire prior to 1972, even though by all the statements on here, both are supposedly English. Why the post, bus passes pub opening hours blablabla are all diffrent people from Tintern went over to Brockweir to drink as the opening times were diffrent by LAW. There are so many differences, maybe someone from this English Democrats should come and live here, to see the differnces. Monmouth is and will always be Welsh, stopping history where it benefits you and leaving out all the rest is a very sad and shows desperations. The Welsh party should look at parts of herefordshire Ergyn,ask an English man Living in the English village of Llangrove this.
    The Forest of Dean, and maybe also the Middle Marches Shrewbury, Owestry and the likes should also get a say fi they want to be Welsh again. England keeps chipping away at Wales and The English Democrats seem to want to take a big chunk again. I have no ill feeling for The English and wish them there own Goverment which they should and must have, but not with this slimy Party. All the best England.Its all so childish,just leave it as it is, people have layed their lives down for this country including both world wars, standing shoulder to shoulder with their English brothers, for their homelands, so show some respect for the fallen, instead of low life political catches.

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