A Lord as leader of Plaid! How daft is that?

I love Dafydd Elis Thomas, in my opinion he is the most influential person to enter Welsh political life since Owain Glyndŵr, he is a national hero!

Without a shadow of doubt Dafydd is the most able, the most experienced and most capable Assembly Member in Cardiff Bay, regardless of party affiliation. Dafydd is a man that the whole of Wales, not just Plaid supporters, should be extremely proud of; a National Treasure!

If Dafydd was just Dr Thomas AM, I would say that he would be an exemplary leader of Plaid and a man made to be an excellent First Minister!

But Dafydd is not Dr Thomas any more he is Lord Ellis-Thomas of Nant Conwy, for better or worse.

On personal merit Dafydd is head and shoulders above the rest of the field! But his title is a burden that Plaid cannot afford!

If Plaid elects a Lord to become the leader of a Nationalist Left of Centre Party it will become a laughing stock!

Despite his undoubted merits, every vote for the good Lord will be a stab in the heart to the national cause. Comparisons will be made between the Third Marquis of Salisbury and the First Lord of Nant Conwy and those comparisons will hurt.

Please, Plaid don't do it!


  1. AS you say he is head and shoulders above the rest, therefore he has to be the one.
    Vote DET 1,

  2. 'Lord DET' if elected leader, will be the death of Plaid Cymru but that could be a good thing. Plaid Cymru is not doing the job of a nationalist party, we need a fresh start with a new nationalist movement/party.

    1. Not a half bad idea. Maybe something more along the lines of the SNP with an Alex Salmond type at the head.

  3. He is also the one that officially introduced 'Socialism' into the Party.
    Isn't that what you hate about Plaid?
    Why such adoration (with the exception of the Title) for a man who has effectively stopped you from joining the party?

  4. I beg to disagree, Alwyn.

    It's the man, his qualities, ideas, and policies, not his title, that makes him unfit to be the leader of a nationalist party.

    As I've commented elsewhere, in some ways he reminds me of Gordon Brown - who was equally unsuited to be the leader of the Labour Party - indeed ANY party.

    It's a matter of ego. One often sees it in prominent politicians. DET exudes ego and has an air of personal superiority and smugness which I find particularly unappealing. Ego can be an advantage where there's a charismatic personality and political astuteness to balance it, as is the case with Alex Salmond. DET possesses neither.

    Even worse is the inconsistency he has displayed publicly in the media and the readiness - delight even - to ride roughshot over the policies of his party. One doesn't know what outrageous statements he'll come out with next. A veritable loose cannon.

    Moreover, I don't rate his achievements much either. He frequently likes to tell us that he's an expert on 'the constitution' - a British constitution that we need to be rid of as sooon as possible for the damage it has done to the entire UK, let alone to Wales. Being an 'expert' in it isn't going to win any votes or improve the living standards of our people. As for Wales having 'a constitution', now that it has some devolution, that's a joke!

    Plaid made little or no electoral progress under his leadership in the 1980s, and in my opinion there's less possibility of him doing so now as he's got worse as he's got older.

    He's over-fond of name dropping, the close friend of this, that, or the other, but he doesn't seem to have much, if any, support among his colleagues in the Assembly.

    I agree with The Informer that he could be the death of the party, but that would not be a good thing, as it is the only vehicle capable of taking Wales forward.

    I am concerned that there are too many AMs with similar views to his. Most of them back Elin Jones, which does her no credit either.

    DET's election is likely to cause a split, and I'm sure that many would leave or cease to be active members - I would be one of them.

  5. If you'd like to read an extremely turgid endorsement of the Lord, see below:


  6. Richard Robert Jones24/02/2012, 22:40

    Alwyn' comments are all tongue in cheek. He hates Dafydd Ellis-Arsehole more than me.Anonymous Feb 23,02;52 AM agree with everything you say about DEA.

  7. RIchard, you are totally incorrect, I have known Dafydd for almost 40 years. I owe a great debt of gratitude to Dafydd because he gave me the confidence to use the Welsh language socially rather than to think that "my Welsh isn't good enough". I was in the count when Dafydd was first elected in 1974, one of the most exiting nights of my life, and Dafydd gave me an excellent reference which enabled me to gain my first professional job. There is nothing tongue in cheek about my praise for him, he is a man for whom I have a huge amount of respect.

  8. Anon Feb 23, 2012 02:52 AM, Dafydd isn't an egotistical person; despite his "media image" he is a very humble person.

    Having known the two Dafydd's on a personal level for a long long time, it is Dafydd Wigley (despite his cuddly – friendly charismatic media image) who is the hard basket of Plaid Politics, the egotistical and driven one of the two.

    Lord Thomas is an open friendly guy who it is easy to get on with; Lord Wigley can often be a nasty ogre!

  9. Anonymous Feb 23, 2012 02:15 AM. Your comment isn't strictly true; Socialism was gaining a hold in Plaid when Dafydd was party leader the last time around; people like Adam Price, Alun Davies and the other "Young Turks" (as they were known) were perusing quite radical Socialist policies at the time and threatening to split the party on Socialist issues. I can remember a conference where Dafydd's election agent threatened to rip up his membership card if the party supported gay rights, for example. What Dafydd did was to introduce the oxymoron of "decentralist socialism" to the party, as way of attempting to appease both wings of the party. Not his finest hour perhaps, but a canny move at the time given the circumstances.

  10. Anonymous Feb 23, 2012 01:15 AM:
    Despite his experience, despite his ability, the fact remains that when knocking on doors in the next election you won't be explaining why Plaid's Policy on health, or on the economy, or on employment or on constitutional issues is better than that offered by the others; you will be explaining how a left of center Welsh national party is lead by a Lord – you will be a laughing stock!

    Is that a campaign that you really want to be part of?

  11. Further to Anon 02:52 & Alwyn

    I'm in no position to comment on Dafydd as a friend or even as a personal acquaintance, as you clearly are.

    I can only comment (as I did in 02:52) on how I see him in the media, and by his utterances.

    Regrettably that his how he has been and will be perceived by the vast majority of people in Wales, who will never know him personally.

    It is on that basis that I conclude his unsuitability for leadership - on the basis that he will be unlikely to win wider electoral support.

    His ability to win friends and 'nebulous' influence in the Labour Party is neither here nor there, Labour will always act in its own interests in the final analysis.

    Significantly greater powers and eventually sovereign independence will only be attained through real hard political struggle, which entails winning widespread electoral support. It will not be won from the unionists by befriending them. We might gain this or that in drips and drabs when it suits Westminster, and doesn't prejudice them.

    It will entail a hard political fight. It requires a charismatic leader with firm political convictions, realistic policies, and clear objectives. As far as I can see Dafydd does not score highly on any of those.

    Elin does better, but unfortunately she lacks the charisma to galvanise the party and our people. Like it or not, she is the continuity candidate who is likely to carry on in her predecessor's footsteps

    Leanne is head and shoulders ahead of both. That is why she gets my vote.

    Whoever is elected poses a risk - true of any party choosing a new leader. Bearing in mind the standing of the party at the present, time lying third electorally, it is time for that risk to be taken and the opportunity grasped.

  12. Alwyn 06:22- nail on the head. DET wanted to satisfy all parts of the party. The result was that nobody knows what decentralist socialism means. Prior that it was community socialism which was a bit more understandable and meaningful, from the late 70s. DET introduced a fudge much later. As far as I can remember.

    DET did convene the National Left which was instrumental in detoxifying the party when it came to working with Labour. It opened up the devolutionsit route, whatever you might think of that.

    But those aren't good enough reasons to want him to be leader, sadly.