04/05/2014
An appeal to the Pissed Off to vote Plaid
I have a long history of being "pissed off" with Plaid Cymru.
Every time I hear a Plaid spokes person get annoyed with the mention of Independence, I'm pissed off!
Every time I hear a Plaid spokesperson refusing to acknowledge the Colonisation issue I'm pissed off!
Every Plaid appeal to a socialist ideal that I oppose with every bone in my body pisses me off.
When I see Plaid AMs and MPs marching for peace, republicanism and other namby pamby rights I am pissed off with them for not arranging similar marches for Welsh self determination.
There are lots of reasons why Welsh Nationalists should be pissed off with Plaid.
On May 22nd there will be an election where an Extremist British Nationalist Party could do better in the polls than Plaid, but only if Welsh Nationalists who are pissed off with Plaid refuse to vote for Plaid.
Like it or not there is ONLY one party that supports Wales standing in the Euro Elections – Plaid Cymru. Because of their nature small turnout elections (like the Euro Elections) are not decided by those who DO vote, by those who DON'T vote.
Those of us in the nationalist community who are pissed off with Plaid who decide to cut off our noses to spite our faces by NOT voting for ANYBODY will by effect be supporting the Unionist cause - the most anti Welsh Unionist causes Labour and UKIP, will benefit from our not voting.
NOT voting is akin to an UKIP vote or a Labour vote, a vote against Wales. I would appeal to all supporters of the Welsh National cause to bite the bullet, hold their noses in the election booth vote for Plaid, and cast a vote FOR Wales, on May 22.
On May 23 we can start the argument again!
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If anyone wants an insight into Farage and UKIP then these quotes from a recent write on their recent meeting in Bath give you an idea, the rest is at http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-belly-of-the-beast/
ReplyDelete"By far the cleverest part of the speech, though, was when Farage insisted that all he wanted was for the UK to adopt the same sort of immigration policy as Australia. He was all for immigration, he repeated, so long as it involved skilled people intending to work hard and make a life for themselves – he wasn’t interested in benefit claimants or, rather jarringly, people with illnesses.
This was a new line to me, and a chillingly smart piece of politics. Because while its immigration policies are stringent and sometimes bordering on murderous, Brits tend to see Australia as an easy-going and friendly nation with close cultural ties to the UK, somewhere they’re happy to be associated with. Farage played it extremely well, and the crowd lapped it up."
Anon, I don't get the point. What country attracts or allows immigrants - other than genuine refugees in fear for their lives - who are going to be a drain on a country's resources? Australia operates a 'What can you offer us?' immigration policy that makes perfect sense to me. Other countries do the same. Try migrating to NZ by saying you hear they've got a good benefits system. The USA introduced quotas over a century ago. Try migrating to, and getting a share of the goodies in, the Gulf oil states. Open door immigration policies are the route to social dislocation and economic ruin. Just look at Wales.
ReplyDeleteAs for Alwyn's point about Plaid Cymru, I don't entirely agree. Because, for me, Plaid Cymru has become the problem. Let me explain: If I was sitting in an office overlooking the river in London and I wanted to stop Welsh nationalism in its tracks I could do a lot worse than come up with the idea of a party like Plaid Cymru. Credible enough to get the votes and be accepted as the voice of Welsh nationalism but never determined enough to make it happen. A pale shadow of the party that once looked to Plaid for advice. I see Plaid Cymru now as a dog in the manger kind of party, unable itself to deliver but still serving as a block on the emergence of a party might.
Plaid Cymru is a failure, and there may be no point in wasting any more time on it. A new party is needed; one that will be a Welsh party rather than a socialist party, a party standing up for Welsh interests rather than environmental concerns and gay rights. So in a way I hope Plaid does lose its Euro seat, because that could mark the beginning of the end for a failed party, and help create the conditions for a fresh start.
It would be great if there was a successful, uncompromising, four square purist new national party, but it's just not going to happen. How many new ideal national parties have been formed and consigned into oblivion during the past 40 years? Half a dozen - probably more.
DeleteNew parties take time to build up electoral support – look at UKIP 21 years after its foundation it has yet to get an MP, AM, AMI or MSP elected and despite its huge media exposure only succeeds in low turnout PR elections. Plaid Cymru and the Greens took 40 years to elect their first MPs. Is there really any point in starting a new party in the hope of electing our first MP in 2054?
And what guarantee would we have that the new party won't compromise its self on the way to gaining that miniscule electoral success at a time that you and I will probably just be fond memories of our grandchildren?
We may as well grin and bear it Plaid Cymru (for all its faults and the frustrations it causes us) is the only national party we have in Wales. Supporters of the national cause opposing Plaid Cymru are just pissing in the wind whilst the wind is blowing against us.
The point Royston is to show that UKIP politics is little more than extreme prejudice wrapped up in a British flag with nothing to offer Wales, it’s obviously to subtle for you.
ReplyDeleteOn immigration it’s the neediest (refugees etc) who UKIP want excluded, something that goes against what we welsh have historically believed in and im not defending the UK government but the UK has had a points based immigration system like Australia and US A for a number years a point often lost in the debate.
As for your thoughts on Plaid Cymru I agree they need a new direction, but im not sure how your ‘everybody in Wales should piss off except the indigenous’ attitude differs from UKIP’s message or how many welsh would appreciate it.
Twenty five per cent of the population of Australia are immigrants.
ReplyDeleteAboriginal Australians make up 3% of Australia's population. By my reckoning that makes 97% of the country's popukation imigrants.
ReplyDeleteSion Jobbins has called for rallies supporting Welsh Independence. We should be jumping on the Scottish band wagon and start delivering our country from rule by England.. If popular rallies start to take place Plaid Cymru will have to wake its ideas up and get rid of its careerist dead wood.
ReplyDeleteAnd, in relation to Royston's "new party" comment (above), is probably the best way forward. A civic campaign for independence that will put some backbone into Plaid (and patriots in other parties and none) would probably be much more effective than another new party.
DeletePlaid Glyndwr? Starting a new party is easier said than done to bringit to any position of power. Plaid Cymru is there it just needs some back bone and do what is says on the tin.
DeleteUnfortunately only the English live in South wales ! and they hold the statistical voting balance. They are both against the Assembly, and against welsh too,and want a return to the old welsh office set up. Basically we are relying on their usual and complete apathy, for Wales Labour to walk it again.
ReplyDeleteAlwyn, you write that "Like it or not there is ONLY one party that supports Wales standing in the Euro Elections – Plaid Cymru." I beg to disagree. The Labour Party's bilingual leaflet for these elections is printed and published in Cardiff. In large print is says "Standing up for Wales in Europe". It tells us that "Thousands of Welsh jobs rely on Europe". Politics aside, you will have to agree that Derek Vaughan has done a good job for Wales over the past few years. Perhaps Jll Evans has too, but I am less well informed about that.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you would have written that sentence if you had been present at the packed meeting in Llandudno Junction Labour Club a month or so when, without notes, Derek Vaughan MEP outlined his vision for the future for Wales to a packed gathering. The chatter in the room - in both languages - was about the needs of Wales. Oh, and Derek Vaughan hates UKIP more than you do. You really belong in the Welsh Labour Party, which may be imperfect, but it does represent thousands upon thousands of ordinary Welsh people.
Sorry Gwilym but I could never agree with you that Labour is Party is supportive of Wales. The domination of the Labour party in Wales over the past hundred years has been a disaster for Wales from a national point of view, for the language, for our economy, for democracy and for almost any "good" value that decent people should support
DeleteI wonder what Owen Smith, or Neil Kinnock's vision for Wales entails. I suspect that it does not involve two languages, but rather a return to pre 1999 colonialism.
ReplyDeleteI heard Owen Smith speak to Labour supporters in Colwyn Bay earlier this year. He is clearly a Welshman.
ReplyDeleteI think that his position is best given in the words of Oggy Boggy Ogwr : "Welsh Labour are arguably slap bang in the middle – they're happy with devolution as it is, and are open to more powers, but would fall short of federalism, considering themselves both 'Welsh & British'". I haven't heard any views of Neil Kinnock in a decade. I don't think he view counts for much these days.
I don't think that anybody would doubt that there are "good Welsh people" in the ranks of the Labour Party; indeed there are many in other parties too - people like our local Tory Syr Wyn, his Labour predecessor Ednyfed Hudson Davies and his Labour successor Beti Williams; Geraint Howells and Emlyn Hooson stand out as examples in the Lib Dems. The problem with Labour's support for Wales was summed up accurately to me on the doorstep during the1979 Devo campaign - for every one Cledwyn Hughes there are five George Thomases unfortunately there are now fewer Cledwyns and more Georges in "Welsh" Labour than there were in '79
DeleteIf only Gwilym was trolling, but he like hundreds of thousands across Wales actually believe Labour is a socialist party with Wales best interests at heart, it’s thoroughly depressing if you’re a non believer knowing Labour will win by default if you vote or not.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous (2) should not be depressed, but should start to do what the Labour Party does: hire rooms, hold public meetings, distribute leaflets, knock on doors, and talk to people. Some can be won over. Other parties do this to greater or lesser degree. Guto Bebb was out in Deganwy last Saturday with Kay Swinburne MP, for example The Labour Party has no divine right to rule, but its councillors, MPs and AMs are elected because they make an effort to contact the people of Wales, gain new members, and recruit the lost (LibDems). There is no easy way when the vast majority of the press is against you. Don't moan or feel depressed. Get a group of like-minded people together and get out there!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Labour is that there isn't one Labour party, depending on where you are and at what level the elections are there are inumerable amounts. From local councils, AMs, MPs, MEPs. They all have claim to have a different view on Wales but the one thing they all agree on is that they would rather Wales was run by Tories in London than by its own people in Wales.
ReplyDeleteLet Derek Vaughan stand as an independent and then see if he retains his seat. Like all the rest they need the donkey vote and it is this branding that ensures that in the end they all do as they are told.
'Welsh, not British', I suspect you don't really believe that "they would rather Wales was run by Tories in London than by its own people in Wales." That really is the opposite of the truth. There may well be some Labour Party members or elected who would rather Wales was run by Labour in London. But don't forget is was the Labour Party which brought devolution about.
ReplyDeleteAll political parties, including Plaid Cymru, are coalitions and contain a range of view. I once met a republican Plaid Cymru activists, but most PC supporters are fiercely loyal to the Queen.
Your comment about donkeys is an insult to Welsh people, of course. I suspect that you are really anti-Welsh.
I think its the other way round, Gwilym. Most PC activists like me are anti-monarchy, but the leadership has become increasingly ambivalent and sycophantic. The Labour party in 1979 sabotaged devolution - Abse, Kinnock et al. Labour , one and all, also brought Iraq and Afghanistan upon us, and now pretends it was another party in a far-away time. I fought for a Welsh medium school in Bangor in the 70s. Who opposed it the most ? - The local Labour party. Same in Aberystwyth. Who told appalling lies about WM education ? Neil Kinnock. Labour spent most of the last century opposing any public use of the Welsh language, and only this century have some at the top made some positive noises. I except the great Cledwyn Hughes, and Goronwy Roberts to a lesser extent.
ReplyDelete